There's 80 Comments So Far

• Brian
  May 19th, 2009 at 9:39 am

  Hi Norm,

  I’m hoping that was a typo…Lakeview two-storey 430K above list.. maybe 43K?

• Heather D.
  May 19th, 2009 at 9:39 am

  Without trying to sound too optimistic this is exactly the kind of trend I want to continue into spring. More inventory, less sales, it would certainly make it more of a buyers market!

  I wonder how many people are still holding onto properties from the last year, hoping to sell at hot spring prices? There are a lot of new listings on Point2Homes and some of them show pictures taken in the summer/fall.

  P.S. I think you made a slight miscalculation on the overbid for the Lakeview two-storey. ;’)

  Are there ever any notable sales that sell for lower than expected, or am I just fantasizing? Some filthy rich person who leaves the province and sells their 1300sq ft bungalow on the East side for $250K? I’d sure like to hear one of those stories Norm. Can you keep an eye out for me?

• Jedi
  May 19th, 2009 at 9:40 am

  Hi all,

  Our Scotiabank friend, Ms. Warren, is predicting that Saskatoon will be hte number one seller’s market this year (she is the same one who thought affordability had declined too much). I can post the link but there isn’t much to the story.

  Regarding listings, are prices getting out of whack? I did a open search on mls with no price restrictions and including condos. Out of 37 pages, i think 24 came with a price tag of 250K or more and about half at 350 or more. That is a lot of listings in the upper range.

  Doug, is this in line with what you are seeing in median pricing? Norm, or anyone else, is there more listings in the higher price ranges?

• Heather D.
  May 19th, 2009 at 9:40 am

  Jedi,

  There’s no question that affordability has declined, it’s factual. If Demographia lists Saskatoon as “moderately unaffordable” that’s enough for some people to think affordability has declined “too much”. Ms. Warren’s predictions are just as good as anyone else’s until they materialize.

• Norm Fisher
  May 19th, 2009 at 9:41 am

  Brian and Heather,

  Indeed, that was a typo. Thanks for the heads up.

  Heather,

  Point2 Homes draws its listings from agents who participate in their network. I’m going to guess what you’re seeing there, in those instance where you see summer photos, are dated listings.

  and yes, you are dreaming there.

  Jedi,

  No matter what you believe will happen ultimately, I think there’s little question that Saskatoon will be taking the spotlight again this year. Most of the other major markets have cooled quite a bit.

  Amy Goldblum from RBC has also obviously bounced away from her “overvalued” predictions. Apparently, fundamentals are not that important to housing.

  I think prices are “out of whack” simply based on the fact that a typical Saskatoon income cannot support the mortgage on a typical Saskatoon home. Again though, it seems that there are other factors at play here that aren’t concerned with fundamentals. I’m guessing that when the dust settles we’ll see we’ve acquired some new Saskatonians from Alberta and BC. These people generally have lots of equity and they’re already accustomed to making outrageous mortgage payments

  MLSOnline is sadly out of date this week. One of our biggest issues with our new MLS system has been the “push” of data to third party web sites. We hope to have that remedied early this week. Mean time, there are probably 100 or so properties appearing there that are sold.

  The new system allows me to easily determine the medians with accuracy. As of this morning, the median list price of a Saskatoon house is $359,900. The median price of a condo is $259,900.

• Jay845
  May 19th, 2009 at 9:41 am

  Can anyone direct me to a link that identifies what Saskatoon’s average income is? I would be interested in seeing this data.

  Not only has Saskatoon housing prices shot up, but the bedroom communities of Warman, Martensville, Osler, etc have also risen substantially. One positive of these areas growing is that the towns themselves are now developing alot of lots (I have heard that Warman is in the process of servicing 1900 lots). This may give people some more options.

• George
  May 19th, 2009 at 9:41 am

  I would expect things will get busier the next couple months. April, May, June and July are usually the busiest times to buy a home. Most people want to be settled in their new home before summer holidays or before school starts in the fall.

  The bedroom communities offer a cheaper alternative than the city. Not much cheaper, because they have risen dramatically, but I believe taxes are less expensive there. Just look on Saskhouses for the differences between Saskatoon and Warman. It does add up in the end.

• Norm Fisher
  May 19th, 2009 at 9:42 am

  jay845,

  Some real recent number StatsCan income stats can be found here.

  http://tinyurl.com/286yas

• Jason
  May 19th, 2009 at 9:42 am

  Jay, you can find some great information on Saskatoon’s income levels over at Norm’s own page.

  http://www.teamfisher.com/Saskatoon_at_a_Glance/page_1723426.html

  I think what you will see in the coming years is resuming of the flow of of young people leaving Saskatchewan for greener pastures. As has been discussed before, the income levels haven’t kept up with the housing costs, and if a person decides to stay in Saskatoon they either have to make the decision that they are going to be living in substandard housing or working an ungodly number of hours at low wages to help pay for a starter home in a safe neighbourhood. If a person has a formal education or professional background, they will likely find affordability to be better in larger centes such as Calgary due to employers there recognizing these skills and paying them what their talents are worth. The mentality of Saskatchewan employers, on the other hand, is that unless you are desperate for workers like the construction industry, then you will try to pay your employees the absolute lowest you can so that you can make the most wealth for yourself. Essentially the province, the city, and employers who refuse to recognize the huge jump in cost of living expenses have all worked together to drive out young professionals from the province. They seemed to have made the decision that they would rather give the boot those Saskatchewan faithful who remained in the province through thick and thin in exchange for those who abandoned the province and headed out to Calgary to make a quick buck. It always strikes me as a tad bit hypocritical how people from Saskatchewan always used to talk about the greedy Albertan’s and how they only look out for one person -themselves. You give these same people a threefold increase in the equity value of their house, and they become strangely silent, however.

• Adster
  May 19th, 2009 at 9:42 am

  I think the MLS changeover has affected this past weeks numbers. MLS.ca was nearly useless all week because sold listings weren’t removed and new listing were taking a long time to come on (~3-4days), which in a market as fast as Saskatoon’s right now has an impact.

  I was intensely looking for a house so I really noticed but my realator stayed on top of it for me to keep me in the loop and I wound up winning a bidding war yesterday and am now a Saskatoon home owner. I am a boomerang Saskie returning home from a 5 year stint in Alberta so while I bought my house just about 4 years ago there I am still having a problem watching Saskatoon’s house prices rapidly starting to match Calgary’s. The only thing is now I’m exposed to the buys market in Calgary as my house has been on the market there since the end of January with not much activity. So I’m just praying it picks up in the spring here because there arean’t many buyers for the 5000+ sfh’s listed there.

• George
  May 19th, 2009 at 9:43 am

  Jason,

  while I agree with you that we may once again have young people go to greener pastures, it won’t be Alberta or BC. 4 or 5 years years ago, this was a great idea, now its almost as if which is the lesser evil. Saskatoon 70,000 average household income 300k mortgage, Calgary 100,000 average household income 460k mortgage. Calgary’s infrastructure is absolutely insame, try to get across this town at 5pm!!! For the higher wage comes higher RE prices.

  Many friends that I graduated with 10 years ago moved to Alberta for a couple of reasons. Better money, RE was affordable and they were only 5-6 hours away from family. Now they are moving back. Talk to anybody who has moved back from Alberta and you will hear the same theme. They made some money from moving to a cheaper RE market, but they also will probably take a drop in pay. Another big thing is the commute to work. One friend said he had 2.5 hours of commuting each day. Now, it is 25 min total and he lives in Willowgrove.

  Personally, I believe that Saskatchewan is the place to be. I just wish our economic boom was managed better by our government especially the clowns at city hall. They didn’t see this coming and had no plan in place for a boom. We should just have monkeys there, at least they would probably have an answer for the condo problem .But If I couldn’t afford a house and family was not such a big deal to me, I wouldn’t move west, but south like Arizona, tons of RE listing and great weather. But I hate winter so I am biased.

• Heather D.
  May 19th, 2009 at 9:45 am

  If people in SK want their kids living with them until they are 40 please continue supporting this madness. I don’t want anyone complaining about how their adult children can’t afford to buy into the market a few years down the road. We had a good thing and now we’ve lost it to greed.

  Jason,

  I’ll have to agree with you, SK is EXACTLY like AB, and the people here are no more moral than people in AB. We may as well call ourselves Dolly. We are the copycat province! Hooray.

  Adster,

  I’m praying AB doesn’t pick up in the spring, because that will mean more migrants coming over with their wads of $$$ buying up houses and shutting more and more entry level buyers out of the market.

  George,

  Those numbers aren’t so different comparing affordability. Remember, kids starting out will rent before buying. If the vacancy rate is better, rent is similar, and wages are better they will flock to greener pastures. Lots of people like big cities, Saskatoon just doesn’t have all the amenities. (Which is why I like it)

  What goes around comes around, eventually it will be a seller’s market again. Why everyone is so panicky to buy while the market is hot is beyond me. If you can’t comfortably afford a $300K mortgage save up until you have a larger down payment, or move. Don’t put yourself between a rock and a hard place.

• Heather D.
  May 19th, 2009 at 9:46 am

  Oof!

  *buyer’s market

• jason
  May 19th, 2009 at 9:46 am

  I think a lot of buyers are panicing because they are being told that prices still have the potential to double over the next couple of years. One of my friends just bought a condo over by market mall for just a shade under 200,000 last week. After talking to a couple of different realtors, the consensus was that the unit is going to be upwards of well over 300,000 by the end of the year / mid 2009. Even though he had his doubts as to whether or not he could afford it, he ended up buying anyways as he said that he is only going to be a worse position if he waits any longer. It’s easy to see how people get in over their heard when the market is going crazy like this.

  Myself, I’ve just decided to just rent in the meantime. Even with our numerous rent increases, to find a condo in the same location with the same ammenities it is going to end up cost me nearly $900 a month to have the same quality of accomodations. I have just been socking away the $900 into investment funds in the meantime, and I am going to wait by the sidelines and see how the market unfolds. It is also a good test to see how I am able to handle financially the extra $900 monthly that would be needed if I chose to enter the market and buy.

  Time will tell if I am making a mistake or not.

• Norm Fisher
  May 19th, 2009 at 9:47 am

  Adster,

  I’m told that my numbers are current and correct as they were taken directly from the “MLS.” Data on MLS Online went without updates last week, until Friday evening. Last week’s solds weren’t entered until this weekend. They should come off of MLS Online tonight.

  Heather,

  Fantasizing again?

  Jason,

  $300,000 by the end of the year would mean another 50% increase this year. Seems unlikely to me, but as you say, it’s really all speculation. However, your approach strikes me as sound and responsible. Good on you for making a plan. Hope you’re able to manage. $900 a month will add up quickly and make a big difference when you are ready to jump in.

• Heather D.
  May 19th, 2009 at 9:47 am

  Norm,

  Not a chance, this is strictly straight talk!

  Jason,

  Your friend felt pressured, you’re being smart about it. What’s the point of stretching your limits and feeling uncomfortable about mortgage payments? This is the kind of stuff that breaks up marriages, brings on depression and unhappiness. Life is too short to be handcuffed to your home. You’ve got a great plan, stick to it until the time is right for you buy, rather than chasing the market.

• Adster
  May 19th, 2009 at 9:48 am

  I have been idly checking out houses in Saskatoon since just before xmas and there really wasn’t a lot to look at until maybe about 2 weeks or so ago. But it seems like with the bump in inventory came a huge jump in interest so I really felt like the pressure was on once houses I wanted to have a 2nd look at were being sold the next day and then all of the sudden this stupid presentation of offers BS (which to me is saying ‘come to my house at this time and I’ll allow you to overbid for it!)’ which brought about a few big over bids. So I got pretty down about it and I really started to understand the crazy buying mentality cycle that gets started when you have to be so aggressive for a house and you feel like you have to get it done now or you’ll just be paying more for it in 2-3-4 weeks time never mind in a few months.

  I was waiting for my house to sell but luckily I had some nice outside investors (read: baby boomer parents) to back up my play while I wait for my house to sell in Calgary. I’m glad it’s done now and I don’t have any remorse as even with a 7% overbid I still feel like a got a good value for the house I bought.

  Now I understand how frustrated everyone was in Calgary a couple years ago with the bidding wars and huge price gains, but since I already owned from before the boom I wasn’t really exposed to this crazy mentality until now and it is pretty intimidating until its done. Now I just need to convert my paper ‘double up’ in Calgary into reality .

  So there’s a view for you of a Saskie turned rammy Albertan coming home to roost with our lottery money.

• Mike
  May 19th, 2009 at 9:48 am

  Norm,

  At what point do you think we will see construction of new condo towers (preferably in the core)? The demand appears to be there, though it seems prices are not yet high enough to ovecome construction costs.

• Heather D.
  May 19th, 2009 at 9:48 am

  Adster,

  “Lottery money” – nicely put. There are those that think because they were lucky enough to get in pre-boom they are somehow wiser and more savvy than the rest of us. They should feel fortunate that they are not in the position of first time home buyer, rather than boasting about their perceived wealth.

  Did a job bring you back to Saskatoon? Was it a time-sensitive matter? I’d like to know why some people aren’t waiting until the market has calmed and inventory and land demands are met to return here.

• Adster
  May 19th, 2009 at 9:49 am

  Heather,

  I do feel for the first time home buyers that are trying to get into the market (ie. all my friends) and how they must really feel shut out. First time buyers are important as they buy at the lower end which enables us all to bump up one more rung on the property ladder. Coming from Calgary has helped stomach these prices, although I feel like I’m catching the last train out of Calgary in terms of real estate, I think price gains there are over for a while and would be luckily to stay at 0%, the massive amount of inventory of all times with even more coming online this year is really killing everything. I’ll be watching Saskatoon real estate like a hawk this year and if inventory starts building up like Calgary I’ll seriously consider getting out of the market. I consider Calgary to be a crystal ball because everything that’s happened there has happened in Saskatoon 12-15 months later. Hopefully though I don’t think that Saskatoon has ramped up the home building anywhere near as much as Calgary did for the boom so that’s actually a good thing. If Calgary were to drop 15% this year I think it would shatter Alberta and Saskatchewan’s confidence in real eastate, because if it can happen in Calgary it can happen anywhere.

  As for me, it was really several reasons that all converged at the same time and caught at the right time in my life. I am already employed by a Saskatoon company (I handle Alberta sales), my family and friends are here, wanting to do something with the equity from my house in Calgary, the girlfriend is also here, and lets face it Saskatchewan and Saskatoon are going to have the best economic year ever and be leading the country this year. Along the way for those of you that haven’t experienced it yet, get ready to also lead in inflation, traffic growth, hard to find taxi’s, poor service, crazy house prices and etc. that we’ve all had to deal with in Calgary these last few years.

• Heather D.
  May 19th, 2009 at 9:51 am

  Adster,

  Very interesting, you seem to have a pretty good grasp on things, especially coming from a place that has already had the same thing happen to it. The difference I see between the two markets is that Saskatoon’s boom escalated over a shorter period of time than Calgary’s! I wonder if this also means we may see the market start to slide earlier?

  I want to stop big city changes from happening to my beautiful city, but I realize my efforts are futile. All I can do is yell at the people that are allowing it to happen. :’)

  If Saskatoon’s inventory becomes oversaturated (which is what I’m counting on to stop the insanity) why would you get out of dodge? This is where you want to be, does it matter what the real estate market is doing?

• George
  May 19th, 2009 at 9:54 am

  Heather,

  I agree, there needs to be more inventory for these increases to stop. MLS shows only 375 listings at the moment. In past years it seems as if the city was hoarding land and now when there is great demand they open it up but with huge price increases. And to top it off they are behind in developing the lots. Then the builders see this huge demand and jack up the price when in reality construction costs have gone up at the most 10% the last year, but new homes have gone up 45%. They have made huge profits all at the cost of consumer.

  That is why when I build, I will do the contracting myself and I will save huge amounts of money. It will be stressful, but I think I can do it. I will just be waiting for a slowdown. This will be a couple years down the road, but I will be willing to show the amount it will cost me and compare to what the builders are charging. I bet there will be a huge difference.

• Thomas C.
  May 19th, 2009 at 9:54 am

  First off, thanks to Norm for having this blog, and to the regular contributors, as I have recently gotten into this homebuying madness, and this website provides a great window of information (and opinion). I’ve been reading with interest the last couple of months or so.

  My family has recently moved from Northern Alberta, simply because we like it here and thought it would be a nice place for our son to grow up in. We have no ulterior motives to buy a house, such as investment, or turning a profit – we simply want to live in a house that is our own (quality of life). After a lifetime of “being a renter” we want to own a house.

  We were pre-approved a while ago, and after experiencing, first-hand, the “joy” of house bidding on a few occasions, I can tell you that people are willing to do crazy things to buy a house. Unbelievable things. It is not even spring yet. I am just glad that my family aren’t in a desperate situation, and are doing it out of “want to” rather than “need to”.

  I don’t hold it against anyone who tries to maximise their profit, as it is a free market, and I would do the same thing if the shoe was on the other foot. One piece of sound advice I can give people, is that you can’t overstate the importance of having a good honest realtor when you are buying. I am not a realtor and have never dealt with them (sorry Norm), and I always thought they were like lawyers (sorry again Norm, I really owe you one for that comment!). The person we have helping us, has the same principles that we do, and I will be forever grateful to him for that. Again I’m not in realty, just a rookie buyer who is trying to buy a house.

  I really feel sorry for any family that “needs to” buy in this market, speaking strictly from personal experience.

• Johny
  May 19th, 2009 at 10:17 am

  Wow Adster,

  You weren’t kidding. I hadn’t checked out the calgary market for a while but just checked welist. A lot of of inventory coupled with a lot of “reduced” prices in description. It can’t be very easy to sell there right now.

  J.

• Norm Fisher
  May 19th, 2009 at 10:17 am

  Thomas,

  Thanks for joining the discussion. So glad to hear that you’ve found an agent that you feel confident in. Your comments about stereotypes are interesting to me. I find that most people have those feelings about agents in general. It’s funny though, because those same people often feel really good about their own agent (“agents are this way, except for mine”). I hope you’ll tell your agent how much you value his honesty.

  We still have our problems but there are a lot of people working in this business that I’m really proud to associate with.

  Best wishes for success in this crazy market.

  Johny,

  I think it’s quiet almost everywhere else in the universe.

• Alexander Trauzzi
  May 19th, 2009 at 10:18 am

  Norm,

  It’s funny what you say about agents, because it’s totally true! I think people grow attached to the one who they eventually choose. Perhaps they go through more than one, but eventually they find one they like, and that guy is the exception!

  I’m lucky to have at least two that I like and every other one at the one Royal LePage office in Winnipeg that I met were great!

  Thomas,

  I’m not criticizing your perspective as it certainly is a lucky thing to not have your feet held to the fire. What I will say though is that the hardships endured by the people do eventually lead one to question whether profits should be allowed at a time like this.

  The focus of government involvement in economies specifically applies to a situation like this where people are displaced by the buying power of others.

  I can see and understand people wanting to make the most money. What I can’t see is allowing it to happen right now. It ends up being too difficult to address when it gets this competitive because many people have tied come to expect the revenue when they dominate real estate.

  Take that away from them, and they only scream bloody murder because their easy money has dried up.

  How can we possibly all compete with each other though? Some of us are more wealthy than others.

  Houses should not be used to make easy money off of people.

• Heather D.
  May 19th, 2009 at 10:18 am

  George,

  It sounds like you have a great plan set-up. I think you’ll be sitting pretty in a year or two. Lot prices are unruly and contractors are gouging people, with that combination there will definitely be less people that can afford to build this year. Not much we can do about our greedy city, I doubt in the past during SK’s slow times lot prices have eroded. I think by the end of this year the tables will turn on contractors. They will have to turn-in their gouged profits for competitive rates.

  Thomas C.,

  You say your family doesn’t “need to” buy a house right now. As I’ve said before I feel people who aren’t in desperate need of a home shouldn’t buy into this market and contribute to the bidding wars and panic buying. What are your plans, wait and see, or pay whatever price necessary when you find a house you like?

• Jesse G
  May 19th, 2009 at 10:19 am

  Jason,

  I completely agree with you. The young people will move to Alberta or BC or elsewhere. People that have said that oh Alberta and BC are more, depends what you are looking for…

  I have a friend that moved out to Vancouvwer, she has a admin type job that gets paid virtually the same as my architecture job of 9 years experience, her rent is 900 a month, but it’s a nice large apartment, food is cheaper out there, taxes are less, her car insurance is actually only about 100 bucks a year more than out here, her employer appreciates her and shows it by having free functions, as well as gym memberships, i could go on and on and on. She’s SAVING money where as here she wasn’t saving nearly as much at the $14 an hour she was getting.

  I love how everyone says bc and alberta are soooo much more, but when you get down to it, it’s not nessessarily true.

• Jesse G
  May 19th, 2009 at 10:21 am

  George,

  I think it’s great that you’re waiting and going to build yourself. I think this would be the only way to go unless one’s rolling in money. I draw up buildings for a living and just knowing ‘roughly’ how much things cost, shows a huge difference between what things cost and what they REALLY cost…My parents for instance wanted to put in a garage door on the back of their garage. Quote to pull off the boards, put a beam up, and a few studs? over $2000. She called me, I went over there, and within about 3 hours, I had it all done, the cost of 4-2×6’s, 2-2×10’s for the beam, and time to dispose of the old junk, cost about 25 bucks total maybe 30. Amazing what these people charge for things. (I’ve found similar things in automotive fixing like brake pads, can cost a consumer $400, but if u do it yourself it cost me $28 and about an hour and a half of work)

• George
  May 19th, 2009 at 10:22 am

  Jesse G.,

  BC and Alberta are so much more than here. Housing, traffic jams, higher insurance if your under 25, time to get to work, etc. But on the plus side wages are better and there are better opportunities.

  What area of Vancouver is your friend in? $900 is pretty cheap in Vancouver unless she has a roomate or in a questionable neighbour hood.

  Your friend could have maybe bought something a couple of years ago here, small house or condo. Now she can’t.

  In BC she would not have been able to buy a couple of years and definitely no chance today.

  This one advantage we had over BC and Alberta is eroding.

  And things are getting crazier

  http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/080311/d080311b.htm

  I heard a rumor that builders are actually putting pieces of gold and oil in the houses they build. That is why prices have gone up 51.7% in a year. That explains it better for me because I know that materials and wages have not gone up 51.7% in one year.

• Ron
  May 19th, 2009 at 10:25 am

  I’m not so sure that wages are higher in BC than in Saskatchewan. The average household income is around $70,000 in Vancouver and most Vancouver suburbs which is about what it is in Saskatoon I understand. Victoria’s HH income is around $65,000 I think with sky high housing prices over $550,000 on average. Kelowna’s prices are even higher than Victoria with resort/tourist industry type jobs that pay pitifully. I’m guessing that the HH income in places like Kelowna is very low. I will agree that Calgary has a much higher HH income than BC or Saskatchewan. I also cannot say that BC’s economy is stronger than yours. In fact, while mining and gas is booming here parts of our economy are certainly in a recession – forestry being the notable example. You are reaping the benefits of the mining boom as well as us but you don’t have the problems of the forest industry slowing you down and have a booming agricultural sector.

• Jesse G
  May 19th, 2009 at 10:25 am

  George,

  I think she’s in Burnaby. Either way she’s content and happy with how she’s doign out there getting 45 grand for an admin job she’d get 28 for here. Even so though, check boardwalks site http://www.bwalk.ca and just look at the prices for saskatoon and the prices in vancouver. They aren’t really far apart as one thinks. I know i’ve heard how BC and AB have been expensive thru the years of retterick but knowing a few single friends that have moved out there (one to Calgary and one to Van) it’s not as bad as the people here say using it as a reason to stay here. I’m sorry if it seems like i’m arguing but i’m not. Just taking the facts my friends who’ve moved away have told me becuase i wanted to know. That was the first thing I wanted them to relay to me .

  Buying is completely out of the question there yes, but it is here too for someone that is single making one wage anyway.

  Sask is going to lose a LOT of people.

• Jesse G
  May 19th, 2009 at 10:26 am

  Sorry bad url. Http://bwalk.com

• Heather D.
  May 19th, 2009 at 10:28 am

  George, those stats are unbelievable! We’re letting these guys take advantage of us – a 51.7% change in new housing prices from Jan 2007!!! Regina is 2nd highest, yet FAR behind us at 25.9%. Edmonton comes in 3rd at 19%.

  People we are being FLEECED! Why are we letting this happen?

  Contractors are the new lawyers – Can’t trust ‘em!

• jrochest
  May 19th, 2009 at 10:28 am

  I finally looked at the Star Phoenix story: it’s amusing. The interest rates that they’re using are, of course, the lowest available: the rate you’d be liable to get would be a point or two higher.

  Even using their figures, though, the carrying cost of a 280,000 condo is 1650 + 250 fees + 150 taxes + 80 hydro = 2,100 a month, at a minimum.

  Both fees and taxes go up yearly I’m thinking that the average carrying cost of the average apartment is going to be somewhere in the 2500 range.

  This is a recipe for bankruptcy, not homeownership. The events south of the border and in Alberta show what’s most likely to happen.

• Jesse G
  May 19th, 2009 at 10:29 am

  I too read the article. Way too funny. At the good old 30% ratio or what not they use you’d have to make something like $84000 a year if you’re single or 2 incomes to get up to that point…living in this city talking to people I find it hard to believe that young people even make HALF that. I do luckily but doesn’t really help me lol. It’s okay though becuase i’ll be abandoning this city asap.

• Norm Fisher
  May 19th, 2009 at 10:32 am

  Came across this funny little video on Jay’s blog this morning.

  Housing Bubble, What’s the Trouble?

• Young Man
  May 19th, 2009 at 10:33 am

  That video is great, “Granite countertops + swimming pool = instant equity!” I love it Norm why the heck not hey, I’m no fool. “Worth $250,000 but appraised for double” I once saw an appraiser view a duplex over 2000 sq feet with 4 suites in probably under 5 minutes… a couple pictures and a quick walk through to make sure the rooms actually had walls and KAZAMMM, its worth $XXX,XXX (fill in the blanks at your discretion)

• Brian
  May 19th, 2009 at 11:05 am

  Hi Heather,

  Are you saying we should not allow homebuilders to sell homes at market value? I completely agree with you that they are making money hand over fist. Maybe a better solution would be for the city to set aside more lots for purchase by individuals.

• jrochest
  May 19th, 2009 at 11:06 am

  Actually, appraisals are based more on sales prices for comparables in the area: all you really need to know is the square footage, the level of finish, number of beds and baths and such. The time consuming thing is finding comps.

  The inspection is less important than it seems; it’s not a home inspection.

  My father was an appraiser for about 30 years.

  And ‘market value’ is the value the market itself sets: what a reasonable buyer will pay. It shifts constantly — up and down both

• Jesse G
  May 19th, 2009 at 11:11 am

  I see where Heathers point is…though not sure what we can do when they are hosing us…I tend to think there would be investigation if something like gasoline in Saskatoon rose to $4.00 a litre while Regina stayed at $1.12…though with housing this seems to be allowed…

  I think it’s quite criminal if the builders (evidence points to it) in Saskatoon are charging that much more than the builders in Regina because you KNOW the builders in Regina are making good profit too. I mean technically we could take the ‘lowest cost rise’ for new housing in a city in canada and say that’s the basepoint and any other city that is charging more than that is clearly being taken by the builders.

  Just food for thought.

• Jesse G
  May 19th, 2009 at 11:16 am

  Sorry for the 2 posts so close together, but I was talkign with a friend in the Nepean ontario (ottawa) area, she was looking for houses…The existing (older houses) are WAY more pricy than new houses in new areas. It’s obviously a different dynamic than here.

• Brian
  May 19th, 2009 at 11:37 am

  I’m going to have to disagree Jesse. Don’t get me wrong, I’m disgusted by the current market too. But unless the builders are colluding, I don’t see how selling at market value is criminal. I’d be interested to know what the exact terms are that allow builders to get the lots from the city.

• Jesse G
  May 19th, 2009 at 12:40 pm

  Okay, maybe criminal is a strong word. I suppose without building one’s self they wouldn’t know how much is actually saved…I just wonder what happens when a new house is built in the ‘less desirable’ areas…if it’s going by market value, does that market value include the surrounding houses and the neibourhood? IF it did we’d be seeing new 1000 sq ft houses (if they build those anymore) in Avenue A-Z in the price range of the surrounding market (within that area)…shouldn’t we?

  Just an interesting thought…at least to me lol.

• Todd
  May 19th, 2009 at 12:40 pm

  I think news that the Barry Hotel will *not* be a bar any longer is a great sign for Riversdale. While it won’t resolve all issues overnight, I’d think this goes a long way to lifting property values in the area. Wish I had some money to buy in.

• Mike
  May 19th, 2009 at 12:41 pm

  Todd:

  Latest word from NewsTalk650 is that it will be demolished. I will be extremely upset to see another downtown building turned into a gravel parking pad. The potential for condos/rental units in that building is great.

  There’s a good collection of info on the Barry and general Saskatoon construction here:

  http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=129

• Heather D.
  May 19th, 2009 at 12:42 pm

  Brian,

  Market value in Saskatoon is merely a figment of our imaginations! :’)

  I’d say criminal at this point isn’t a strong word, but I of course like to make waves on here, haha. If one is not held accountable for gouging people because supply and demand allows it, there should definitely be questions raised where the City of Saskatoon’s responsibility lie in all of this. Here they are DRASTICALLY behind on servicing lots, and then they go and sell a boatload of the serviced lots to big construction companies (such as Northridge) while leaving VERY FEW for individuals to purchase. Then the companies hold these lots “hostage” so they can charge whatever they want to unsuspecting buyers. In our “free market” the odds are hugely stacked against home buyers! If you’re not holding the cards you’re out of the game.

  Jesse,

  I think those are some very valid points you make. Clearly materials are NOT what’s increasing building costs. (only slightly) Labour costs have gone up, but again the correlation is minimal.

  I think people need to start asking questions, and STOP rolling over! There are builders out there that are certified, are under the new home warranty plan, and DON’T charge as much as the big companies. Find them, hire them, and show the other comapanies their unethical business practices aren’t appreciated! OH… and vote in a new mayor! May I recommend one who isn’t a businessman and who keeps our citizens in mind? A city shouldn’t be run soley like a business.

• Jesse G
  May 19th, 2009 at 12:42 pm

  Heather,

  Thanks for some confirmation. At times a person feels like a crazy person when everyone else seems to not see things logically. Sometiems i think i’m nuts!

  On the note of labour costs, has anyone applied for any of these construction companies? The wages arne’t that great…certainly not enough to pay the people enough to buy their own condo’s lol.

  I agree people need to ask questions. The problem is where can a person ask these questions? CBC used to have a talk back email forumn type deal. They removed it beucase someone probably said one negative thing about the city or province no mattter how realistic.

  I have very high morals and so I will remember to only shop at places that show some appreciation for the customer. I always enjoy lululemon shopping simply becuase the people are always so helpful and friendly and easy to talk to. If this city was a business, I wouldn’t return becuase of the lack of customer service and caring.

• Todd
  May 19th, 2009 at 12:44 pm

  Mike, I’m not sorry at all. There are too many social ills and, reportedly, environmental issues with the current building to probably make it livable. I think new condos there would be a perfect addition to the neighbourhood. Throw some commercial space onto the bottom floor and it could be a great revitalizer of the area.

• Jesse G
  May 19th, 2009 at 12:45 pm

  Mike,

  I’m sure i’m with a lot of folks in the city when i say they could level 20th street from idylwyld to the west end for a parkign lot and it’d be a step up from what it’s like today.

  Seriously (even though i was kind of serious) though I agree that if they are going to keep the Barry, to completely convert it or somehow change thigns to be a ‘productive’ building of sorts. If it’s converted and underground parking made, I think people would move into it.

• Mike
  May 19th, 2009 at 12:46 pm

  If it is not economicaly viable to reno the building, then I guess market forces (along with pressure due to those social ills) will take it down. However, I am of the understanding that construction costs are too much for most developers to make a go of newly built condos, so conversions are the best option. If this building gets demo’d, the best we can expect is a gravel lot or a one storey convenience mart with a parking tarmac.

  I would love to see a mixed use condo tower with retail at grade, but those aren’t happening in the most desirable areas of the core, let alone a corner with that sort of reputation.

  As far as the Barry being a symbol of those social ills goes, the rehabilitation of the Albany has made most forget that name.

• Heather D.
  May 19th, 2009 at 12:50 pm

  Jesse,

  I’m sure the workers of these large companies aren’t seeing a fair percentage of the profits, the “higher-ups” and owners would be pocketing most of it.

  For the average Joe it is really hard to find the answers, that’s why a person needs to dig deep. Explore different avenues, get a bunch of different quotes from different builders, large and small companies. Don’t be afraid to ask questions, even tough ones.

  I want to share with everyone a story about incompetency. I was at the City Land Branch today – the lady there informed me that the next lot draw MIGHT take place in May. Let’s recap shall we:

  In fall last year I was told both East and West side lot draws would be happening in January ‘08…

  Then in December ‘07 they said both will be bumped back to February…

  Then in January ‘08 they said West side lot draw ONLY will take place in February, East side not until March…

  Then in February they said the East side lot draw has been bumped back to April/May…

  Now here we are… *gah* This city is damned!

• Jason
  May 19th, 2009 at 12:51 pm

  Seems the “Boom” is hitting smaller communities as well. I was just talking to an older lady in our building and she said her sister was just given notice that she will have to find a new home as the provincial government is selling a good chunk of the affordable housing / Sask housing inventory in Watrous and Young to a private developer. Like the tenants in the Millroy, she doesn’t know where she is going to live, as there aren’t any other available accomodations in either community to live in, nor can she afford to move to Saskatoon to find shelter.

  But, hey, it’s all good. Whats a few more homeless people if it means someone can make a few bucks off of their plight? It’s the new Saskatchewan way.

• Jesse G
  May 19th, 2009 at 12:53 pm

  Heather,

  This doesn’t suprise me as I too looked into the ‘lot draws’ late last year. Now not having a lot of experince in how these things work, I still thought it was crazy that a person coudln’t just go out and BUY a lot whenever they wanted to from the city to build another house. I mean sure have it in established plans, but isn’t thier current way of the ‘lottery’ completely AGAINST building the city instead of being FOR it like they keep preaching to everyone?

  If I were in the city I would make sure there were neibourhood expansion plans (which don’t really take a whole lot of time to create being a drafter myself), limit the lots to one per person or family unit, and start the sell off.

  If they aren’t serviced, then have a list of contractors (ie a contractors pool) of approved contractors that can service these lots for building on the properties.

  Instead of the serviced lots being 60grand and up, make them 20 grand without services. I mean there are TONS of solutions to work through but it seems we have people in the city and mayor’s office who are completely out of touch with reality…and electing a new mayor or council will most likely not make any difference either. Government seems to be like many businesses I’ve worked in before…find a template someone else (that had skill) actually wrote up, change some words, cut and paste, and put it out and feel like you’re doing something.

  Maybe the city should set aside land for shanty towns because that’s what it will come to.

• Alexander Trauzzi
  May 19th, 2009 at 12:54 pm

  Whatever the people come up with to make this fair and less profitable, it will always be shot down as nonsense.

  That’s the nature of the greedy people behind the fleecing of Saskatchewan. They know exactly how to come out with statements and incredulity that will force any opposition down.

  You read it in the papers, you hear it from the politicians who are obviously apathetic to the suffering. You hear it from investors who want to protect their cash cows. You hear it from current home owners with the green dollar signs in their eyes and dreams of long trips to Mexico.

  It isn’t done out of reason. People like Callum and Northstar come on here and do it regularly: They simply let out the biggest most convoluted accusation of hyper-leftism and hope it’s enough to hamstring the complaints. If you backtrack all the points brought up, they all trace to one thing: getting money.

  Making money isn’t bad in this day and age and I think it is important to realize that. It’s making MORE money that is getting out of hand. We have situations where the wealth is jut not making it around the economy, but instead collecting.

  In a lot of ways, we need to be honest with ourselves and admit that greed is behind all of this. Just like all things, unless Canada really wants to fix problems like high house prices, low wages and rental shortages, we have to find the sponges.

• Jesse G
  May 19th, 2009 at 12:54 pm

  You are so correct on this Alex,

  An exmaple of people that either don’t care or don’t keep in touch with how things are going was that counciller that finally realized there was a problem when they had a close family member (daughter i think) effected by the whole condo ‘fun’ THEN all of a sudden it became an issue.

  As for Callum, as i’m sure everyone can see, he’s laughing all the way to the bank, which is fine, I tend to wonder if he’s just doing business, I wonder what his significant other, parents, or anyone else he cares about would say if they saw the way he really thinks and acts towards others on this board or other areas in his life. I have no ill will towards this person but I just hope his concience can cash the cheque every time he writes when he makes a snide remark.

• Norm Fisher
  May 19th, 2009 at 1:00 pm

  Mike,

  All kinds of condos are being built. It seems to only be limited by the supply of land right now. Conversions are only attractive because people seem to be willing to pay $200,000 for a little box.

  Heather, Jason, Jesse and Alex,

  Excuse me for interrupting the pity party.

  You guys seem to be able to pick up on everything that is wrong with society. Is anybody doing anything right?

  It just dawned on me that in spite of the fact that 4 city councillors voted against the Milroy conversion, there hasn’t been a single “attaboy” or even a mention of that.

  Everybody is not against you. Some people do care.

  Alex,

  “we have to find the sponges.”

  What would we do to them when we find them?

• Robin
  May 19th, 2009 at 1:01 pm

  So long as a majority in City Hall continues to strike down measures that would help renters in this city (and help stop the greedy madness), then you might as well say that all of City Hall is against renters, and every city councillor does not care.

  Fact: they knew *better*. This is a college town. You can’t let the vacancy rate drop to a pitiful 0.6 percent. Everyone at City Hall has a lot of explaining to do. The majority of ‘em are ignorant, incompentent boobs.

• Home Owner
  May 19th, 2009 at 1:01 pm

  As a home owner before the boom, I can tell you that there’s no dollar signs blinding my vision. How would I transform my home equity in to dollars? I could either go in to more debt against that equity in my house, or I could sell my house and then be stuck in the rental market, or sell my house and move away. None of those options are attractive.

  Point being, you can’t label existing home owners greed as being part of the problem here.

• Norm Fisher
  May 19th, 2009 at 1:02 pm

  Home Owner,

  Exactly! Every bit of your equity gain is offset by your need for shelter. There’s no big windfall here for average Joe.

• An Ignorant Incompetent Boob
  May 19th, 2009 at 1:03 pm

  Alex,

  Thank you for expressing that, as an Ignornat Incompetant Boob that works at City Hall it is a common occurance for everyone to lump us all together and blame us for all their troubles in life. Too often all we ever hear are the negative things from all the nayasayers, not often enough do we ever hear about the positive things that the City accomplishes for its citizens.

  Robin and the Pity Party,

  Although the lot draw process has been around for some time, it wasn’t too long ago (i.e. before Jan 2007) that you still could go and pick out a lot in some parts of the City (i.e. Hughes Drive in Dundonald). In fact, one Councillor mandated that the park in Hampton Village be developed much earlier than originally planned because lots were not selling!

  Many people on this board seem to blame people at City Hall for not seeing this boom coming. My question to them is if it was so apparent that this was going to happen, why didn’t you buy real estate back then??

  The people who work dilegently for the City are ordinary people who are just as affected by what’s happening as the rest of people out there. Stop trying to point the finger at us, if you don’t like living in Saskatoon, then move! You always have a choice, accept the consequences and make it.

• Jesse G
  May 19th, 2009 at 1:03 pm

  Norm,

  You are right on the 4 councillors that DID vote. Far as i remember it was a tied vote with the mayor casting the deciding vote so yes, clearly not EVERYONE is being eeeeeeeeevil.

  That being said, I’m not sure everyone including myself is blaming the City fully, or this fully or that fully, as it takes more than one thing to effect so many people, but when we’re trying to do our own investigation it’s tough to not look like a pity party since it’s either we look into it or we accept everything or move. I tend to think the people that are frustrated with this indeed grew up enjoying this province and probably still do, so it’s out of the love for the province (or city) that we’re fighting for when we’re trying to figure out why the average joe’s are going to be kicked from the province soon enough. Maybe we should all just roll over and let the steam roller run all over, or just all move, i mean that’s an option too.

  Perhaps some parties would like that, just shut up and let us make our money, have our cabins, boats, 2 weeks in mexico, and if we’re a business owner hey there are graduates (suckers) every year so we can replenish our workforce that is forced to leave the province becuase of the poor pay and poor living situation.

  We may be called the pity party but if we’re trying to investigate what’s going on here when we’re constnatly being told that there is this BOOM happening here and that THIS is the place to be…when it’s apparent that it’s not really a boom at all…

  It’s frighteningly similar to a workplace saying WE’RE A GREAT PLACE TO WORK FOR! And not telling anyone that 30 out of 90 people have left in the past year and a half becuase it’s NOT a good place to work.

  Maybe we should all just go silent and let things be, let the greed run the province since that would make it easier for those gaining from this. Lets all make it easier for them.

• Mike
  May 19th, 2009 at 1:04 pm

  Norm,

  Thanks for replying, although I don’t think you are quite correct. All kinds of condos are being built, with the exception of the high density, downtown/core area variety. The kind that encourages better civic life, better public transit, and makes for a more vibrant community.

  I’m just not pleased that our core will be seeing another gravel wasteland.

• Robin
  May 19th, 2009 at 1:05 pm

  I’ll repeat my point. The vacancy rate is 0.6 percent. This is a university town. It’s not my job to be aware of the fact of low vacancy, and prevent needless condo-conversions in a town with a low-enough vacancy as it was (before the housing boom). It is, however, the job of the mayor and city councillors of Saskatoon.

  And guess what? They’re failing, miserably.

  How do you not understand that?

  Here’s the wonderful part–even after City Hall realized that we had a LOW LOW LOW vacancy rate on our hands, they were STILL approving condo-conversions. Add to that, there were some city councillors who were playing dumbto the fact that administration was green-lighting every single apartment building to condos. If anyone should have that kind of knowledge, it’s a city councillor. If they don’t know anything, what do we pay them for?

  You cannot justify that, so you might as well stop trying.

• Norm Fisher
  May 19th, 2009 at 1:05 pm

  Jesse,

  I’m not suggesting that people should “go silent” and I certainly relate to much of what’s been said.

  Mine is a single income household, and while I can’t complain about income I don’t have a cabin, a boat, and I’ve never been to Mexico.

  What I do have is a 19 year old son and a 22 year old daughter, neither of whom own property. More than anything, I hope that they’ll be able make a life for themselves in Saskatoon.

  I’m choosing to spend the lion’s share of my energy figuring out, with them, how we’re going to make that happen.

  Yes, we should all feel free to express how we feel but we’ve got to take some care to ensure that our thinking doesn’t become self-defeating. If you only see complaining, rolling over, or moving out as your options then I expect that’s where it will probably go.

  I can tell that you’re a bright person. You will figure it out, just like Alex did. Hopefully, it won’t mean a move away.

• Norm Fisher
  May 19th, 2009 at 1:06 pm

  Boob,

  Thanks for chiming in. As far as foresight is concerned, a quick look back to fall of 2006 might be helpful. These were the “expert” opinion forecasts for resale real estate in 2007.

  Century 21 sees prices increasing three to six percent.

  Remax is predicting price increases of four percent.

  CHMC is predicting prices will rise by seven percent.

  If I recall correctly, the Home Builder’s Association, and a few advocates like myself were the only small handful that saw a tremendous need for more lots. Saskatoon had produced somewhere in the range of 700 lots in 2006? We were asking council to up production to 2,192 and council agreed to do that, and then the city actually made it happen.

  So basically, the city threw the dice and went with the “best case” predictions which were out there at the time while CMHC was warning that we couldn’t possibly consume that many lots.

  On the condo thing, well, sorry. I’m all for freedom and property rights but tenants do deserve far better than they’ve seen so far. We have got to get some order happening there because we just can’t keep spitting people out the bottom end.

  I do appreciate the many complicated challenged that you people are faced with at this time. Many others do as well.

• Alexander Trauzzi
  May 19th, 2009 at 1:06 pm

  Norm,

  When we find the sponges? Right now it’s such a convoluted situation I’d be happy enough to know how and why the system is failing. Once all that has been determined, let’s ask this question again.

  The most we know at this point is that there is an insatiable desire to accumulate wealth out there. This is expressed by many people who are staunch defenders of the way things are right now.

  What’s good for those goose they figure is good for the gander.

  Regarding me moving away – I think it is sad. In a lot of ways it is less than a compromise because I was required to do something against my original intentions.

  (The side discussion to that is I have observed a lot of benefits in coming back to Winnipeg. But that is more a talk about where I wanted to be than real estate and economy.)

  Ignorant and Incompetent Boob,

  I’m sorry that you were called that and I hope you’ll realize it wasn’t me who said that.

  There are indeed many people who function inside of any layer of government that are in fact quite exceptional.

  The main problem there is that you have to adhere to whatever policies and decisions the higher ups make. This includes the figureheads.

  What might help is speaking out in your position. But I know that now is an age where people will not (and likely cannot afford to) compromise their livelihood for the sake of their principles.

  That gets back into things I’ve said in the past where people need a job before they need a good paying job. The people have no leverage in this economy.

  When it comes to positive, many municipal governments are turning into leverage for business. Even Winnipeg suffers from this with a business owner for a mayor and city councilors that have been at their position for well over 15 years.

  I have already spoken about how the mayor of Saskatoon seems less than interested in issues that he does not personally take interest in.

  Definitely not the mark of a leader and looking at his track record he shows no competence as a leader.

  That boils down to representation.

  Young people are not getting proper representation these days. They are voting in ways that work against them because they are easily persuaded by misinformation.

  I don’t see a lot of positive in government nowadays, sorry. I do note a good thing when I see it, but it just isn’t there.

  The people trying to represent do it for reasons other than to represent. Furthermore, wages and costs are skyrocketing with not even a flinch. Again, why? Because if it isn’t a problem for them, it shouldn’t be a problem for you.

• Jesse G
  May 19th, 2009 at 1:06 pm

  Norm,

  Thanks for the blog (at least there is one place where we can all share thoughts). I appreciate that you have a family and hope that you didn’t think I included you in the parties trying to shut everyone up because you have proven time and time again with your blog that there is somewhere to have a voice.

  I hope there is some remedy to the situations too for everyone. As far as myself, I know that by far i’m not one that is under the bus yet like many others are in this city, i’m not in tremendous debt but when there is no ‘negative’ side to things, usually in society that means there is something wrong too…or it’s utopian which being human i’m not sure if that’s even realistic (but i can hope). I think hearing both sides is a show of a society that has both push and pull. We’re just evening things out for the whole ‘BOOM BOOM BOOM’ that is shoved down everyones throats by the media (when there is no proof besides house prices increased)…jobs certainly aren’t really numerous unless you want to work in fast food.

  Sorry got a bit off topic…i need coffee.

• Heather D.
  May 19th, 2009 at 1:15 pm

  Norm,

  The reason I’m on here is because I DON’T believe there are many things being done “right” in this city. I’ll be the first person to acknowledge acts of kindness and benevolence. To make accusations that all some of us do on here is complain, that simply isn’t true. I’ve admired the Milroy tenants for standing up and appealing the city’s decision, even though the odds are against them and others are trying to bring them down. I admired our Prime Minister Stephen Harper for throwing caution to the wind in a country FULL of bullish people. I admired Murray Prokosh for narrowing his profit margin by offering more affordable housing to over 1000 families. When and IF I see any builders in SK attempting to keep their rates reasonable you can be DAMN sure I will acknowledge them, but thus far it seems most builders here are taking full advantage rather than opening their hearts. And as many people on here have so kindly pointed out, this is the joy of a free market.

  Myself and others stuck in this mess are the “small handful” of people that should be taken seriously. It’s too bad you weren’t when predicting the “tremendous need” for more serviced land in 2006, perhaps some of this insanity could have been avoided.

  It is very frustrating when the lot draw keeps getting pushed back further and further. Especially when building costs are climbing higher and higher each month. How about estimating the worst-case scenario date, and then pleasantly surprising people when the lot draw happens 1 month before that? It’s better for everyone if the city bites the bullet and comes up with an honest timeline. They’ve had a whole year to evaluate what it’s like to contract work in this market, if they can’t keep up with the demand then just be honest with people for heaven’s sake! And unless Saskatoon sees slowing this year, there’s NO WAY they’ll have more lots serviced for a fall lot draw, so they should stop spreading those rumours right now and save everyone the headache, including those poor people at the Land Branch.

  Alex,

  Nobody here called the “Ignorant and Incompetent Boob” that, he/she/it is just being defensive.

  Home Owner,

  I certainly don’t think all home owners are greedy, most people just want to LIVE, and aren’t closely watching the market for fluctuations. I WILL be one of these people when and if I ever get into a house. I want to stay in Saskatoon for the rest of my life, I want to have a family, I want to LIVE. I won’t care what my house is valued at, I just want my own place to call home, I hate renting.

  It confounds me as to why anyone would be FOR this crazy market! Why some people in this city want to see real estate sky rocket?! Why anyone would want to see first-time home buyers and low income families be shut out from owning real estate? The only answers I can come up with is that either they’re investors/flippers, or they’re interested in selling their property and leaving SK to a more affordable destination. (You can buy some pretty nice houses in certain areas of the U.S. for much cheaper than you can buy them here)

  Do I have the longest post yet?

• Norm Fisher
  May 19th, 2009 at 1:17 pm

  Heather,

  I don’t mean to accuse you of anything.

  I’m just finding that this blog is taking an increasingly negative tone, and frankly, it’s depressing me.

  Certainly, we have our problems but there are a lot of great people in this community, and at city hall. I’m concerned that readers who stumble upon us may get the impression that we’re all money grubbing slobs, or homeless people.

• callum
  May 19th, 2009 at 1:17 pm

  My ears are burning … haha I’m small potatoes! A small investor who’s making a small monthly profit on a rental condo in Saskatoon. You guys see devils with horns when hear the word investor. Grow up!

• Heather D.
  May 19th, 2009 at 1:18 pm

  Norm,

  LoL!!!

  I see what you’re saying. I guess I am pretty depressed about this whole thing. I didn’t mean to take you down with me!

  The only silver lining I can see right now is that eventually, providing my husband and I keep saving money each month, we will get into a house. I wish I had something more concrete to set my sights on. That’s what the lot draw was for me, but it seems like it’s never going to arrive, which I know is ludricious, but 6 months of waiting tends to feel like “never”, and there’s still no end in sight.

  It’s interesting to hear about your family situation. I’m very optimistic that 3-5 years down the road there will be a strong buyer’s market for real estate, especially with all of the baby boomers moving out of their big houses. I’m certain the situation will be very different than what we’re seeing now. However, the low vacancy rate right now may have temporarily lost your daughter and/or son the opportunity to move out of your house… which could depress one! ;’)

• Norm Fisher
  May 19th, 2009 at 1:20 pm

  Heather,

  I do hope that the affordability issues are able to worked out. I have been fortunate not to lose a whole bunch of family to long distance moves and I really hope that my kids can be here.

  My daughter moves out this weekend. My son is first year UofS so we expect to have him around for at least a few years.

  I understand that the lot thing is frustrating. It must hurt to hear news of prices rising further while you wait for a lot. Can you nail your builder for a price today?

• Heather D.
  May 19th, 2009 at 1:20 pm

  Someone on here earlier was saying if Saskatoon is wanting to turn into a big city, get ready for big city problems…

  Well, we’re already there in terms of crime! The 2 largest cities in SK have the most criminal activity in all of Canada… that’s not an image I care to uphold.

  http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/TopStories/ContentPosting.aspx?feedname=CTV-TOPSTORIES_V2&showbyline=True&newsitemid=CTVNews%2f20080313%2fdangerous_cities_080313

• Heather D.
  May 19th, 2009 at 1:21 pm

  Norm,

  No, I can’t hold him to anything until I have a lot, that’s the problem. :’(

• Norm Fisher
  May 19th, 2009 at 1:21 pm

  Funny. Well, not really funny, but strange. My wife does volunteer work for “Victim Services” at the Saskatoon Police Service. She says that crime is down so much that they hardly have any “victims” to call on.

• Norm Fisher
  May 19th, 2009 at 1:22 pm

  Mike,

  Well, I disagree with you too.

  What are you referring to when you say “gravel wasteland?”

  I see all kinds of good things going on downtown as far as the residential market is concerned. You’ve got a new building on 900 Spadina and the Parktown Manor on 25th. There are four fairly major developments well underway in the downtown core (not new but still a substantial number of units) and a twenty story condo project on the drawing board at River Landing. Seems like progress to me.

• Mike
  May 19th, 2009 at 1:23 pm

  Norm,

  Lots of progress, to be sure. I’m happy to see the developments you mentioned, and would love to see more.

  When I say “gravel wasteland” I mean downtown buildings torn down in favor of parking lots. Joe’s Lunch on 20th, Extra Foods on 3rd Ave, Pacific Cinemas on 22nd, the list goes on, back into the past. I don’t doubt that some day these lots will have buildings on them, but I think it’s a shame that yet another downtown corner will be home to a parking lot.

  Sorry to up the negativity factor on your blog, but it pains me to see good quality buildings (granted, the Barry is certainly questionable in that regard) torn down in favor of cheap replacements, or worse, a “gravel wasteland”.

  On the positive side, I think the new River Landing proposal is great, the warehouse conversions are wonderful and our downtown is likely poised to greatly increase in residential and commercial/office density in the coming years.

• Norm Fisher
  May 19th, 2009 at 1:24 pm

  Mike,

  As a residential agent, I have never been able to relate to what they do to commercial real estate. As you say, lots of decent buildings torn down all the time. I guess this is how the owners avoid paying huge tax bills on them when they’re vacant.

  Hopefully, there’s some kind of a plan for the Barry site. Seems like it would be a stupid investment to buy it simply to rip it down. I suspect we’ll see something going up there before too long.

• Alexander Trauzzi
  May 19th, 2009 at 1:25 pm

  Typically commercial development downtown these days is done in two ways:

  o Parking lots.

  o Private buildings with no public access or public function.

  Again, just a sign of the times. The sorts of people making decisions are the sorts who want oodles and oodles of money.

  Here in Winnipeg that sort of thinking has resulted in a downtown so undesirable and unappealing, we flush millions of dollars doing the same things to revive it.

  If you want to develop a downtown that is attractive and bustling you need to make more shops and public spaces. Nobody is going to stand around a locked door going “what a wonderful downtown we have!”

  Saskatoon is blessed to have something like the art gallery and such a nicely developed riverfront. You also have most of the workings of a desirable downtown! A good shop street, strong efforts towards *public* parking spaces, Broadway just a hop away…

  In time those too will be ruined with the greed-thinking prevalent today.