Saskatoon real estate: Week in review (February 18-22 2008)
On the surface, Saskatoon real estate activity this past week looked fairly similar to the week before. We saw about the same number of new residential listings enter the market and total active listings held steady at 364 units including 189 houses (single-family homes) and 135 condominiums. 98 Saskatoon homes found a buyer, up just a smidge from last week.
Just the same, it was a week for sellers. Strong demand continued to provide them with almost every advantage in spite of inventory levels being up about 40% over last year. The percentage of homes selling at, or above the asking price climbed to almost 60% and the average overbid took a substantial jump, breaking the five digit mark once again. Nine of the twenty five overbid sales were above the asking price by at least $10,000 and one exceeded the asking price by $52,500. Overall, activity was brisker and more aggressive than it was during the same week last year.
The average underbid on the 40 properties which traded below the asking price was also strong at nearly $9,000. These numbers were skewed upwards by one area three properties priced at nearly a million dollars which sold $110,000 below the list price.
The average selling price of a Saskatoon home reached its highest point for any single week at $275,271.
Notable sales
- A war-time one and one half storey (1,000’) in the Exhibition area, no garage fetches $261,000.
- 740’ apartment on 8th Street goes for $175,000.
- Adelaide Churchill bungalow of (1100’) requiring upgrades galore sells $52,500 over list price at $327,500.
- Haultain bungalow (1,074’) with no garage goes for $371,500.
- 780’ apartment in Riversdale trades at $159,500.
- A Confederation Park bungalow (1,080’) without a garage can now set you back $270,000.
See a Google map displaying the boundaries of Saskatoon real estate “areas” here
Data collection and calculation for our statistical reports
I’m always happy to answer your Saskatoon real estate questions. All of my contact info is here. Please feel free to call or email.
Follow our daily updates on Twitter @SaskatoonHomes.
Norm Fisher
Royal LePage Saskatoon Real Estate
There's 73 Comments So Far
May 20th, 2009 at 10:46 am
In my opinion,
I think we’re offically off to the races again. That’s a strong week.
May 20th, 2009 at 10:46 am
“Strong demand continued to provide them (sellers) with almost every advantage in spite of inventory levels being up about 40% over last year.”
People of Saskatoon come to your senses! I’m afraid to say this city is getting dumber by the week. Inventory is up, less people are moving in, and people are still making ridiculous overbids?
On the otherhand I was pleasantly surprised with the number of applicants for the Hampton Village lot draws, not nearly as many as I had anticipated. :’)
May 20th, 2009 at 10:46 am
It seems the unbuzzers better ramp up their campaign or buy-in if they do not want to get left in the dust.
May 20th, 2009 at 10:47 am
371 for that Haultain bungalow is insane. Just insane. When it came on the market I couldn’t even believe they were asking that much. I assume that’s also the same house with the large overbid? If I were selling my Haultain home, I wouldn’t have the cajones to ask even the original amount that they were asking – in my opinion it just isn’t in the best of shape. Which means the seller had a heck of an agent.
On a related note, two weekends ago a couple of fellows were stuffing mailboxes with “Dear property owner” letters, looking for that one special sucker to part with their home so they could flip. Aside from making me re-evaluate my home’s curb appeal
, their tactic made me wonder how much profit guys like these really think there is left in flipping in Haultain/Holliston. Well, I think the 371 bungalow answered my question – all it takes is a savvy agent to play the naive and desperate buyers right and you might still make a tidy little profit.
May 20th, 2009 at 10:47 am
Yep, you first time buyers really need to buy in before you can’t afford to anymore!… oh wait, what happens if you can’t afford to? Can’t remember… and what’s all this hub-bub goin on south of the border? But seriously buyers, buy before it’s too late.
J.
May 20th, 2009 at 10:47 am
Johny,
Too late to ride the foreclosure train?
May 20th, 2009 at 10:48 am
Johny,
Well Ok, wait then, but its not the rest of the worlds fault when your long shot ship does not come in. And if first time buyers can’t afford it now, it is cause they had the same plan last year. Why do we respond with such horror when market responds the way the “Canadian” economists predicted. I could list all the links that have already posted on this blog in the last month or so, but the people who didn’t want to believe them the first time are unlikely to believe now.
May 20th, 2009 at 10:48 am
Actually several economists stated saskatoon is “over-valued” and, if you’re referring to CMHC’s “predictions”, I believe their initial outlook for 2007 was something like 4.5% growth where in fact we obviously saw a lot more. As a homeowner, I’m not hoping the market flops so I can get a cheap house. As a saskatonian, however, I am very concerned about affordability, which was really the only thing we have that’s tangible to potential immigrants… anyone can scream biotech this and oil-sands that till they’re blue in the face but until these commodities generate real growth (the kind of growth that we so admiringly point to in Alberta), it’s all pie in the sky speculation.
Hun, give your head a shake. this kind of deterioration in affordability directly impacts the Saskatchewan potential that is the basis for your argument.
J.
May 20th, 2009 at 10:54 am
I have to admit I was pretty surprised to see the overbidding come on so strong so quickly. I have to say though that I’ve been watching the market get tighter and tighter since November and was also surprised at how long prices stayed flat.
I posted some stats on net inmigration last week and those numbers weren’t showing signs of letting up. I’ve said demand is actually stronger this year compared to last year but don’t take my word for it, just look at the amount of sales each month – they’re all up from last year.
Our inventories are up over last year but those are all in condo units. When it comes to our housing market, we’re just as, if not tighter than we were last year while facing more inmigration and stronger demand. When housing prices get to a certain level, expect those condo inventories to drop.
Whats got me going on this rant is that its frustrating listening to people’s arguments that hype is driving this market. There are some very obvious supply-demand issues at play here and saying that buyers are just basically gullible and incompetant is really disrespectful to people dealing with an already difficult situation. I’m lucky I don’t have to look for a house right now and I really feel for the people who are. Its a hard decision to make and getting harder by the day but to argue that its all being made based on hype is just illogical and I think unfair to buyers.
May 20th, 2009 at 10:55 am
“…or buy-in…”
Such sage advice thrown in at the last minute. What defeatist thinking, that’s some nice spin there.
May 20th, 2009 at 10:55 am
I attended the open house for the Adelaide/Churchill bungalow that sold for 325,000 (50g overbid). To say it required upgrades is being generous. It required a complete gut and redo.
I found a video on youtube of a recent open house in haultain…
http://youtube.com/watch?v=cC_qmuF266g
May 20th, 2009 at 10:56 am
Dazed,
Well, I did say “upgrades galore.”
I didn’t actually see the place but I’ve spoken with a couple of agents and got the impression that some improvements were long overdue. One guy I spoke with said he felt guilty writing an offer at list price. Said it needed a minimum of $50K in work. The photos certainly don’t present very well.
I don’t have any idea what the flowery clock would be worth though.
Oh, and by the way, 73,000 cars drive by this place every December.
May 20th, 2009 at 10:57 am
Alex, I didn’t give any advice or spin anything. I said its a difficult decision to make if you want to own a home today. It was a difficult decision for me when I decided to buy back in the fall. At the time everyone was saying prices were going down, but I didn’t decide what to do because of what everyone else said. Consumers are smart and make decisions based on their own instincts and situation – not hype – that was my point which you must have missed.
May 20th, 2009 at 10:58 am
One of the strangest factors in this market is the out of province demand. If this market is counting on AB money pouring over here again this summer, it’s hard to see how that can happen.
Last year was easy to cash out of AB and the price spread was much wider. It was starting to feel like a closing window late last year.
Could be a lot of people wanting to come here, but not able to do so. IMO that could be quite a big factor, it probably already is one.
Imagine Saskatoon with about 1000SFH and about 400 condos on MLS. That’s roughly the situation in Calg and Edm right now.
May 20th, 2009 at 10:58 am
Mike,
Calgary and Edmonton have over 10,000 properties for sale right now each. This is not including welist for Calgary with about 2000 and over 3000 on comfree in Edmonton. Speculators and builders went gung ho trying to make an easy buck. The cities developed as many lots as they could.
Saskatoon, there are about 400 properties plus whatever saskhouses has. It is not much. And I would not expect inventory increasing too much because it has only been last year and this year the city have produced more than the 500 or so lots per year they were used to opening up. And they are behind in developing them. Someone in city hall planning and development should have there butt kicked. They are the people who should have seen a shortage of lots a few years ago. But they didn’t.
May 20th, 2009 at 10:59 am
Mike,
With the AB market plateauing, (or dare I say receding?) and Saskatoon real estate being as ridiculous as it is, Albertans are going to see less benefit in selling their home in a buyer’s market only to come to Saskatoon and buy in a seller’s market.
Doug,
No, right now I don’t give the average buyer a lot of credit, considering that supply is up and they’re still driving prices higher? It’s just as much the buyer’s fault as it is the seller’s. I’m indeed angry, we’re turning out to be exactly like Alberta, and repeating their mistakes. I’m sure there are many people in this city that wish Saskatoon to have the same ’success’ as Calgary. Having grown up here I love this city for it’s personality and modesty, NOT for it’s commodities and growth potential. Arrogance and bullheadedness may be good for business, but not for community.
Norm,
In regard to that Adelaide home that sold for nearly $330K, I’d think that price is almost comparable to similar properties in Calgary…
For $360K (if they can get it) this home looks near mint:
http://homes.point2.com/CA/Alberta/Calgary/Midnapore/1551999-Real-Estate.aspx
Here’s a beautiful home for $325:
http://homes.point2.com/CA/Alberta/Calgary/Monterey-Park/1550597-Real-Estate.aspx
A bit less sq footage, but not a dump by any means at $320K
http://homes.point2.com/CA/Alberta/Calgary/Beddington/1544815-Real-Estate.aspx
Can anyone still argue that Saskatoon is far behind Calgary in real estate value? Give me a break.
(ReCaptcha: aeronautic game)
May 20th, 2009 at 11:01 am
George,
Yes, you’re definitely right that the city dropped the ball on developing lots, and that brought the onslaught in 2007. Calgary and Edmonton are also a LOT bigger than Saskatoon. Comparitively to last year Saskatoon’s supply is up, and the number of people coming in should (does html work on this thing?) be down.
As I said in my earlier post, the recent Hampton Village lot draw saw 75 applicants (individuals) – that’s less then I was expecting. I’m feeling cautiously optimistic. :’)
May 20th, 2009 at 11:01 am
I agree Doug.
Anyone else have an unemotional, factual observation of this market? (bull or bear).
May 20th, 2009 at 11:02 am
Heather,
On consumer behavior, I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on that one. I have a degree in marketing and work actively in the field and find consumers to be very complex about purchasing decisions – especially if its an expensive one.
On supply, I read Norm make a comment a few months back that there were very few months in the past 15 years when we had inventories under 500.
I read the situation as low supply plus high demand, hence rising prices. Hype (or advertising or promotion) may influence a market but its generally not a driver like supply/demand would be. I think more along the lines of George which is that the primary problem is we don’t have enough property on the market.
May 20th, 2009 at 11:02 am
George
I meant that at a 5/1 ratio for population.
May 20th, 2009 at 11:03 am
Heather
Yes you can dare say receding because it’s true. The plateau seems to have been Jun 07 or so. We sold in Dec down about 15% or so.
It might all might be “unbuzzing” itself. The bubble here might not have a chance to get so big.
So..people shouldn’t come here? I’m never quite sure what you are suggesting. What do you want to see happen? I never had a birth-right to a reasonably priced house in Calgary. We didn’t buy any house you would want, so how are you affected?
May 20th, 2009 at 11:04 am
I’m glad to see people admitting that Alberta was never a hot item in the first place. We’ve certainly taken a while to get to that conclusion!
The changes in community and culture that Calgary and other portions of Alberta have sustained are telltale.
The attitudes developing in these greed stricken times show a very ugly side to our society. A side where people only care about themselves and wealth. While I think you’d miss the point debating how harmless these qualities are, when your entire essence is focused on them, it makes for a very wild eyed existence.
It is a time where when I try to outline these things, people get upset and say “Well what do you mean?” in an attempt to make an accusation of intolerance.
Once again, I’ve never lived in Calgary but I have family and friends who do. I go there sometimes for my work and I know exactly what it feels like there.
Sprawling endless overpriced suburbs, overworked and emotionally deprived families. Countless box malls after box mall. “Free market” values which seem to have only resulted in bloated monolithic corporate culture. Congestion the likes of which Canada has only “accepted” in the Toronto area. Baseless increases in costs to the PEOPLE, a shortage of work – not due to the shortage of people, but the dismal salaries people are offered!
Oh yeah. Sounds great.
All of this is true because it is based on practice and observation. It is a great insult to the difficult times people face to deny reality any longer.
Does Saskatoon really want all this?!
Northstar:
“Anyone else have an unemotional, factual observation of this market?”
Because we all know a desensitized and sterile perspective is going to turn out to be anything but concerned for the state of our country.
Just more apathetic and “moderate” blind eyes, that’s exactly what we need.
May 20th, 2009 at 11:04 am
Northstar,
Yes it seems that emotion is really the least valuable human quality these days. If you were living in the States you’d probably make a point of voting for anyone OTHER than Clinton. Afterall who wants a female president that shows emotion and cares for her country? God forbid somebody gives two shits about the people rather than the profit. It’s a pity Bush’s time is up, he’s done such a fantastic job of leading the country! He’s always encouraged the nation to spend spend spend, that’s the key to a healthy and stable economy.
As much as it angers you to be acused of being a pumper, it infuriates me that people such as yourself imply that any arguement tied to emotion is moot, and that the person’s POV is irrational. Observations are open to individual interpretation, making neither yours nor mine factual.
On a side note, I’d like to applaude our Prime Minister Stephen Harper. Sure I didn’t vote him in, but he’s impressed me with his cautious approach to our economy, especially going into 2008. There has been strong criticism from the other parties yet he is sticking to his guns. I have to admit as Prime Minister he hasn’t done too bad of a job thus far – albeit I’m a still a bit skeptical with the GST cuts. It takes a strong leader to tell people what they don’t want to hear, especially if you’re depending on these same people to vote you back in.
Mike,
Did you not think AB’s bubble was big enough?
In summary, I’d like to see Saskatoon’s growth and economy stabilize. This kind of boom isn’t healthy for a city, sure it’s freakin great for some businesses (especially home builders and realtors) but not for the community. I have a hard time relating to others on here that are pro-boom. I thought Saskatoon was doing just fine prior to 2007. Sure there were population fluctuations, but it seemed like there was some equilibrium.
I’ve always lived modestly, it’s the way I was raised. I COULD ‘afford’ to live like so many others I see – LCD TVs, entertainment systems, new and expensive vehicles, eating out at restaurants frequently, etc. But I know the only people who can truly AFFORD to live like that are the ones that make much more than I do, and they don’t end up having to pull out 40 year mortgages on their house either.
That’s ANOTHER thing that can be blamed on our rising real estate, the 40 year mortgage! Just last night on the news Terri Labelle from the FirstSask Mortages was talking about how 60-year-old people can easily qualify for 40 year mortgages! They ended by saying when you die, the house is sold and the bank gets their amount owed. Nice story.
One last thing, when anyone buys into real estate it can directly affect the market. It doesn’t matter if you bought a house completely out of my price range, it still affects the market as a whole. Sellers will raise the price of their home to match what similar properties sold for. Then the people wanting to upgrade from their starter home need to charge more for it in order to afford the nicer home. It all trickles down. Because of this phenomenon it is easier for real estate to rise in price than it is to correct if overpriced.
May 20th, 2009 at 11:09 am
A few new articles…
Canadian real estate to moderate:
http://www.globeinvestor.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080226.wrealestate0226/GIStory/
Decoupling = BS:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080226.wjenkins0226/BNStory/Business
May 20th, 2009 at 11:09 am
Just to be clear Heather “out of your price range” means under, not over. This lot lottery you refer to sometimes is not something we would ever be doing. What does one win in this lottery? The right to take on debt and give a bunch of money to a developer?
We came here so we COULD buy a house. Everyone shops backwards: trying to figure out how to pay for what they think they want. IMO that’s how the debt balloon got started. Imagine the costs of those lots being WAY beyond you and you get some idea of what we faced in Calgary. Don’t get thinking we’re all rich and soaking up your middle-class suburbia. Not the case.
May 20th, 2009 at 11:10 am
Heather,
“I don’t give the average buyer a lot of credit, considering that supply is up and they’re still driving prices higher? It’s just as much the buyer’s fault as it is the seller’s.”
You’re forgetting that demand has been up year over year by about 35%.
What can an “average buyer” do that will improve the situation? The only thing which I can imagine as worse than having to buy in this market, is having to take the blame for what’s going on.
May 20th, 2009 at 11:10 am
@ Heather again,
You missed this story on GlobeInvestor.
Saskatoon, Sudbury still hot in cooling housing markets
These comments come from the same economist who said Saskatoon and Edmonton most overvalued in September.
May 20th, 2009 at 11:11 am
Mike,
Sorry, I didn’t know what you meant when you said you bought a house I wouldn’t want. I’m looking for a starter home, but perhaps the one you’re in isn’t family-size? Anyone who’s wanting to buy in right now is in a pickle, resale or with building. There aren’t a lot of options.
I can begin to imagine lots being WAY beyond a person’s means – Saskatoon’s have skyrocketed. I remember not too long ago when a decent-sized lot was 40K, now you’re looking at 100K+. This may be another reason why there were only 75 applicants in the recent draw.
Norm,
Yes you’re right, it’s a tough situation to be in. Who do you think IS to blame for it? As for the demand, I was just comparing within the past year. There was less supply in 2007, and more people coming in. So if there’s more supply now, and less people moving in it only makes sense to me that the situation should be a little better for the buyer – that is if people aren’t still panic buying. Maybe I’m oversimplifying things, but I’m putting it out here for discussion.
Question: When you talk about the number of listings in Saskatoon, does this include MLS and for-sale-by-owner homes?
May 20th, 2009 at 11:12 am
Interesting final statement, “less speculative investors”. Is there a source to find that out?
J.
May 20th, 2009 at 11:12 am
That article wasn’t posted until 1:41pm CT Norm, after I had posted those other links. :’)
I could see Saskatoon not ‘cooling’ necessarily but if the rest of Canada is not so hot, that will affect us one way or another. People who are predicting an 18% gain in Saskatoon real estate this year may need to set their sites lower. That’s all.
May 20th, 2009 at 11:13 am
Heather,
I think it’s probably best to measure supply and demand by the number of units listed vs. the number which are selling. Unit sales have been up around 35% for three consecutive months. New residential listings are up by almost the same amount. It’s a mystery to me as well. Everything I’ve read over the last few months would suggest that demand should be decreasing due to affordability. I think this is probably an indication that there are more people coming here, and not fewer.
I don’t really know if you can put the finger on anyone. The flippers haven’t helped much but at the end of the day, there’s only one entity which can impact supply, and only if there is sufficient manpower to move things along quicker.
All of the numbers that I quote are MLS only, unless otherwise stated.
Johny,
I think Ms. Warren is speaking nationally with that statement. That certainly hasn’t been the case here.
I have a client who recently bought a home here who is considering doing some kind of research to determine just how much of this “boom” is driven by speculation. I think she’ll have a tough go and I don’t know of any source one could turn to for numbers on that. I suspect it would have to be done through some type of research poll.
May 20th, 2009 at 11:13 am
Heather D.,
One of the reasons of the low number of people putting in the for the lot draw in Hampton Village is because of the west side. There is a stigma to the west side. I have heard the number of 20% west growth 80% east side for the next few years. People paying 350k+ for a new house justify the extra 40k or so to be on the east side. (Cake eaters) Personally, if I had the money I would do the same
May 20th, 2009 at 11:15 am
That article wasn’t posted until 1:41pm CT Norm, after I had posted those other links. :’)
:’) to you too!
Sorry, I didn’t catch that, but it’s okay anyways. Clearly, you are responsible for “unbuzzing.”
Captcha: miss ruption
May 20th, 2009 at 11:15 am
The only thing that happened quickly last year was the take off. This year, it appears that there are also dynamics at work that may not be fully explainable. There is no use in unbuzzing – too many factors at play right now creating a bunch of lemmings. In the curve maybe I was wrong, Saskatoon was only still reaching a peak. Who knew, who knows. All kinds of people on here think they know whats going to happen. When I was looking and trying to buy in Saskatoon, I was so frustrated and it was like taking a hit in the gut every time some blathering person buzzed about it. Has the opposite effect on me. Went running instead of buying. I have no regrets at this point in my choice. I don’t live in fear about recessions, more people buying, ect. Too much stress, doesnt make for a rational decision. Makes for an emotional decision. And, noone should make emotional decisions on their finances. – Agree with Northstar on that. I do think it will be bullish in Saskatoon until July/Aug. Then, I wonder. But, I was full of crap last year…
May 20th, 2009 at 11:17 am
Cindy, know one can predict what will happen. If you’d bought last year and the market went south, it could make you feel miserable everytime you come home and look at the place.
Its good to go into this thinking rationally – your emotions should be involved but the ones involving connection to family and building a home – not fear and anxiety over what the market is going to do. If you have a bunch of anxiety and are wondering if you could be making the worst decision of your life, its probably best to trust your gut and just walk away.
May 20th, 2009 at 11:18 am
Funny how I,
ask for some unemotional facts, and I get tag teamed by the dynamic duo. I’m not interested in your ethics debate here. I’m here to talk real estate. If you want to debate ethics, please direct me to another blog which is about ethics and I will debate with you there.
Heather, I’m not saying your point of view doesn’t count. In fact, I agree with your ethical outlook on what is happening here. However when it comes to property values, or any type of investment, being emotional about the direction of the market clouds judgement on what is actually happening. It’s quite obvious you’ve been burned by what happened here and that sucks. I just think the facts you’ve presented about this market crashing are a bit “grasping at straws”.
Somebody please present facts that this market is going to tank. Something else besides “Wages don’t support it” or “There’s more supply this year”. Both those arguments don’t hold any weight for wages don’t support housing anywhere, and 360 listings is still clearly a huge sellers market.
As far as U.S. politics, You’re right, I wouldn’t vote for Clinton. I wouldn’t vote for anyone because it would be an uninformed decision. Besides, it doesn’t really matter, because whomever gets voted in is just figure head anyways. You’ve brought up something interesting though. The puppeteers that control this world want you to think exactly what you just brought up. They want you to love Clinton and hate Bush. Or love Bush and hate Clinton. It doesn’t matter to them so long as one half hates the other side. So long as that happens, people will be divided rather than as one. That gives them their control over the people. Thus why I think Democracy is a farse and it may as well be called Facism.
“There is something behind the throne greater than
the King himself”
-Sir William Pitt 1770
Cindy,
Great post!!
May 20th, 2009 at 11:21 am
Dynamic duo?
I’m sorry, if there were three people sticking up for the less financially endowed would their points seem justified to you?
I’m not good at math — but explain to me how the number of people telling you something impacts what they are saying because I just can’t make that connection.
What is the strength of conviction to person ratio again? I’ll go round up some friends for ya.
I find your level of discipline fascinating as it shows you treat this situation as nothing more than a vehicle for profits.
May 20th, 2009 at 11:22 am
What occurs to me is that Cindy is closer than any one by saying “no one can predict where this is going”. Last year when I was in Saskatoon I heard a fair amount of talk about sustainability. Apparently there were people then who were wrong about where things were going just as there are now.
There is no ethical debate when it comes to financial decisions. Doug is correct in saying a person needs to do what they think is right for them. Although I’m disappointed that my main reason for moving to Saskatoon;increased affordability, is slipping away I don’t blame anyone for what is happening there. Or for what happened here in Calgary. I don’t think there is any conspiracy by the banks and mortgage companies to allow flippers to dominate and move a market upwards. It’s simply peoplke recognizing opportunity, taking their chances and making decisions they feel will improve their ability to makle a living.
Conversely, when these markets correct, and they probably will, I won’t feel a lot of sympathy for the overextended or over leveraged people that get caught. That’s how free, capatalist markets are supposed to work.
May 20th, 2009 at 11:23 am
Ken,
Good points. I do have concern for the overextended and over leveraged people though. If you look at Maslov’s Heirarchy of needs, food and shelter are our most basic needs – they get satisfied before anything else. And we’re not just talking about shelter here, we’re talking about creating a home for your wife and your kids and your dog and creating an environment for them that is warm and loving – its about family.
So are people supposed to put off their lives and think purely as capitalists when making a decision? What if they think the market will come down, how long should they wait if it doesn’t go as predicted? A year… five years… ten? These aren’t just capitalist decisions, these are life decisions. So yeah, I will feel for those folks who make a lifestyle decision and pay for it if the market goes sideways.
Its the investors that have benefited from this most basic family need. When families have to start making decisions based purely from an investment standpoint, thats a big and troubling change in our society.
May 20th, 2009 at 11:23 am
I guess I should have qualified my statement. I do have empathy for people stuck in situations through no fault of their own. For example someone that buys a home in a high market then when the market reverses (like we saw in the ’80s here) the mortgage holder re evaluates the property downward and wants the difference before they will remortgage. Also people caught in a squeeze of escalating prices for basic needs like housing and food, heat etc.
I just meant I don’t blame the capitalist entrepeneurs nor do I feel for them when they get caught. I don’t have enough of an economic education to cite other models that may be better. At one time corporations (in the U.S. at least)had to provide a need to the community in order to exist. Maybe that would be a good model for all investment but I don’t see it returning.
In the extreme cases of escalation that we are seeing for the average person it’s very frustrating. even the old shiboleths that “real estate will always go up” or “think over the long term” don’t hold any comfort. This is simply erosion of affordability for most people and the market will need to correct before things change.
I hate to bring up this nagging thought. Do you think the in migration from Alberta (which I feel has had a tremendous impact given the size of the Saskatoon market) will drop off? Or do you feel that as long as there is any kind of price spread people will continue to “cash out” here and move there. To my way of thinking, the quality of life in Saskatoon is very desireable if someone is looking for a change of pace from Calgary’s “superior econopmic advantage”.
May 20th, 2009 at 11:26 am
The supply this year is approximately the same as last year if the 500SF condo conversions are ignored. There was not many of these small units last year, and while they are listings they are not of a size that would be appropriate for most families.
As for demand almost all the resent bank and CMHC reports have pegged the Saskatoon market as a top performer this year. If your a investor why would you roll the dice on a week market over a potentially top performer.
And if by the of next summer the market shows signs of correcting they sell if they make 25% over the period and it cost 5% to sell and another 5% cause they missed the peak, then they still make 15% Most of them would consider that a successful return.
May 20th, 2009 at 11:26 am
Northstar,
I just don’t get you. You try and discredit everyone who has a different opinion then yourself, calling them names, acting superior, you don’t even listen to anything I have to say! I did not say that this market is going to “crash” anytime soon! And you’re certainly not trying to be my friend by helping me see “the light” before it’s too late. It’s just all talk, it’s a game to you. You’re on here to state your predictions and stroke your ego as the market continues in your favour. I’m here because this is a real situation affecting me, not to make childish bets on who will be right. I come on here to tell my side of the story, you come on here to tell people like me to accept the situation, Saskatoon just isn’t affordable anymore. Well I’ll say this – nobody who loves Saskatoon as much as I do would ever wish this to happen to our city. Unaffordability isn’t inevitable, it’s something we all let happen. Two responsible people that have post-secondary training with professional full-time jobs should be able to afford a decent property in Canada without going into debt up to their eyeballs! If Saskatoon doesn’t reward these kinds of people then we’re damning ourselves. More people will be working longer hours, going more into debt, spending less time with their families, and becoming more unhappy. Everyone in this community has to live with one another, you can’t “decouple” yourself from it, this affects us all. Without trying to “grasp at straws” do you ever wonder why depression and obesity are on the rise? Might it have something to do with our fast-paced/low-reward lifestyle? I shouldn’t be trying to convince you. I’m sorry my ethics got in the way of your more important discussions. It’s not in my nature to be submissive, but as I’ve observed with age comes complacency so just give me another 10 years or so.
Cindy,
I’m glad you were strong. You did what was right for you and not what people were saying you should do. You’re the one who has your best interests at heart. Like I’ve said before, nobody knows what is going to happen. Whatever “facts” people present it can’t be known how or IF it will even affect the outcome.
May 20th, 2009 at 11:26 am
Brian,
I don’t think you can simply ignore the number of condos because you’re not accounting for one crucial difference: affordability is WAY down in Saskatoon compared to 2007. So people, even with families, who can’t afford to buy a house will be buying these condos.
While you seem optimistic about Saskatoon’s market this year it’s impossible to know when the peak will come, and as Norm has mentioned previously it’s risky business being the Johnny-come-lately in a market that has already increased so dramatically.
George,
I considered that as well, and you could be right… but where are you getting those numbers from?
May 20th, 2009 at 11:29 am
Heather D.,
Unfortunately, I don’t have a link for that percentage growth. I know I read it in the Star Phoenix in which city council anticipates growth. I saw the map for future development for the city and on the east side there are 3 more neighborhoods slated north of Willowgrove, Stonebridge and Lakewood areas on the East side. The future growth for the west side is west on 22nd street once Hampton Village is done.
This is just a rumor that I heard so take it for what it is worth, but for every 3 houses built by builders on the east side they had to build one house on the west side. Maybe someone has more information on this.
One question, how does one post a link on this blog? I failed computer class in school.
Thanks
May 20th, 2009 at 11:30 am
George,
Thanks, that’s interesting to know! :’)
To post a link all you have to do is write the address in your message, it will automatically make a link.
You can add pizzaz to phrases or words by linking the address but this requires using html code. Last time I checked html didn’t work on here, perhaps only Norm can post it?
May 20th, 2009 at 11:30 am
Heather
The point I was trying to make is the market for the 500sf condos is a single professional or a short term solution for a small family and for each conversion there is an additional person on the street looking for a place to live. If a 500sf place is not what your looking for the available supply numbers are look similar to last year with higher price tags.
May 20th, 2009 at 11:31 am
Thanks,
I was looking at Calgary houses and I think we have a long way to match some of their listings. The 2nd one the realtor cant even afford a color camera, must be tough in Calgary!
May 20th, 2009 at 11:31 am
Yes I understood that, but because of these higher price tags on houses people who aren’t looking for 500sf condos will be buying them anyway because they’re shut out from the house market.
May 20th, 2009 at 11:32 am
George,
Those are some bizarre listings! Did you take a look at the ones I listed a day ago on this forum?
Maybe the people who listed these are totally off their rocker and will never be able to sell at their asking price? I don’t see how your 1st listing (being sold as a lot) could be DOUBLE the price of the nice houses I saw listed between 300K-350K, which includes house AND lot. LoL
I don’t know Calgary that well, perhaps the properties you listed are in an ULTIMATE prime location?! Can anybody explain this?
May 20th, 2009 at 11:32 am
Heather;
These properties are listed in Killarney. It’s an older area in South West Calgary. That is an area that depending on your point of view, could be classed as “historic” or sometimes “run down” some really nice houses some not so much.
There has been a fair amount of development on an ad hoc basis; not anything huge that I can recall seeing. Good location for getting out of Calgary to the west (isn’t that cynical).
It’s doubtful to me that there will be much interest at these prices. But I refuse to be surprised. It seems that some realtors are hearing “If you list it they will come”.
I really don’t know where the logic is sometimes but I haven’t lost anywhere near enough money to be calssed an expert in the field.
May 20th, 2009 at 11:33 am
Ken,
I’m surprised everyday in this market! Are you saying this eventually wears off? :’}
May 20th, 2009 at 11:33 am
George,
Both of those listings are in a VERY desirable location (at the risk of sounding like an anxious realtor
). Kilarney is just southwest of downtown and is essentially on the west portion of 17th ave… the “red mile”. I suppose the closest thing saskatoon has to that area would be south side of the river up by broadway or between broadway and clarence, whatever area that is. There are some pretty run down houses up there selling for a pretty penny.
J.
May 20th, 2009 at 11:38 am
Johnny;
Again I’m guilty of judging a book by it’s cover. Thanks for the insight. I thought it was a good location.
Heather;
Nothing wears off. You just suppress it to fit in.
May 20th, 2009 at 11:39 am
650k for the lot for that one listing in Calgary. That area better be desirable. Transplant that house in small town Saskatchewan and you would get 10000, maybe. The other one looks like a listing in Sutherland or College Park and they want 699K. Either the world is getting richer or I am getting poorer. Absolutely crazy in Calgary!!!
May 20th, 2009 at 11:39 am
Johny,
that area is Nutana that you mention. I would guess the most paid for a lot 50 * 150 would be at most 350k in that area. Factor in tear down and other costs it would be pretty expensive just to start building. But if money does not matter and you love the area, why not?
May 20th, 2009 at 11:40 am
There was dip in Calgary real estate market last year, but if you look at the year over year appreciation numbers that include the Q3 & Q4 of 2007, Calgary still show a net gain for the year even though for the most part it was a single digit gain. See Royal Lepage 2007 Q4 average canadian house price report. https://www.royallepage.ca/CMSTemplates/AboutUs/company/CompanyTemplate.aspx?id=128/
May 20th, 2009 at 11:40 am
I guess the link only goes to the Royal LePage main page, so the link is at the bottom of the page titled “Media” and under that “Real Estate Reports”
May 20th, 2009 at 11:41 am
Ken,
Thats the million dollar question on continued migration. I don’t know what will happen… the banks don’t know and site this as one of the biggest unknowns in our market.
Maybe Albertans are coming here purely for speculative reasons. Maybe they hate the rat race in Calgary and want the smaller ‘town’ feel in Saskatoon. Maybe they have friends and family they have always planned to come back to. Maybe things are softening in Alberta and Saskatchewan has better prospects. Maybe maybe maybe and no one knows what started it or how it will end.
If its mainly for investment speculation then this bubble could burst soon… if its mainly for friends and family or quality of life issues, then this could be a long term trend.
May 20th, 2009 at 11:41 am
Doug,
Good point that you raise. How many Saskatonians have left this province to chase other opportunities over the years? Many of them have reached a point in their lives where money isn’t such a big problem? For them, “coming home” is an attractive option even if housing is ridiculous. If you’re fairly well set up financially and your parents are in the final phase of their lives it might make a lot of sense to be near them.
2008 will turn out to be another strong year of positive net migration. I am getting far more inquiries from people who live outside of the province then I am from within. Many of them think prices are simply goofy here but they have the resources to handle it.
May 20th, 2009 at 11:46 am
Doug;Norm
And I think that about sums it up. Speaking personally, I do have family in Saskatoon. When and if I do get my house sold here I will be looking at moving there for all the above reasons. To answer the people asking what Saskatoon has to offer to justify the price increases; well, for me and I suspect many like me it’s just that …the small town feel in a full service city. There are also expectations at work here. I seemed to me about 2 years ago everyone in Calgary got the idea that Saskatchewan was going to be the next boom. Suddenly I stopped hearing about people thinking about moving there and started hearing about people who had moved there. Suddenly everyone knew someone who was gone or going.
There’s nothing stronger than an idea who’s time has come … and maybe there’s no more to it than that.
It may get to a point where employment prospects come into play.So far in Calgary sending out resumes still brings quick responses for interviews.I haven’t had that experience with any opportunities I’ve persued there.
Maybe I’m only employable in Alberta but I suspect employment and wage growth (perhaps perception of same) may become a factor as the spread narrows and ex pats face carrying a mortgage with their new life style.
May 20th, 2009 at 11:47 am
Heather
“You try and discredit everyone who has a different opinion then yourself”
This statement is completely false as I have constantly acknowledged good points that I don’t neccessarily agree with. Go back to my debates with Johny for reference.
Yes I am here to talk about real estate in Saskatoon and hear opinions about the direction of the market. I you feel I’m stroking my ego than that’s your opinion. All I ask is that I can come on this blog and talk about real estate without being called derogatory names. As for your reference to me calling people names, I rarely do it. If I do, it’s only in response to what’s been thrown my direction. Please copy and paste some references where I start the name calling process. If I do this, they should be easy for you to find.
May 20th, 2009 at 11:49 am
Northstar,
It was plenty easy to find, thanks:
“ask for some unemotional facts, and I get tag teamed by the dynamic duo.”
“All I ask is that I can come on this blog and talk about real estate without being called derogatory names.”
Derogatory, inappropriate, enough said. I haven’t done that to you. You’re a hypocrite, and that’s not me calling you a name, it’s right there in your posts. It isn’t your place to determine what people talk about on this blog, that’s Norm’s job. If Norm finds my posts irrelevant or inappropriate he has the power to delete them. Initially I did not direct my “emotional” debates towards you, this is a group discussion. If you don’t think my posts are relevant to real estate, then don’t respond to them.
And just because you’ve had amicable discussions with Johny that doesn’t absolve you from accusing me of “grasping at straws”. If the points I make hold no credibility why are you always chiming in to try and disprove them? I’m sorry my arguements aren’t “good” enough for you, but that’s soley your opinion.
May 20th, 2009 at 11:51 am
Egh…
I really like how highlighting a point made as opinion somehow dulls it into a meaningless statement.
First two people can’t share an opinion and now they aren’t allowed to have a statement count if it is an opinion?
Yikes.
It seems to me that you spend a lot of time trying to use very reliable tools of side debate to take the steam out of people you disagree with. Rather than admit anything you whip out these – and I must say – very effective tricks.
Table turning, opinion scoping, hypocrisy, astonishment and “stay on topic”. It really is fantastic to watch you at work! It is a potpourri of all the nastiest irrelevant tricks every right winger loves to use to turn it into an upstaging battle rather than a discussion grounded in reality.
Your economic perspective is so isolated and bottom line oriented, you fail to realize the pillars your world lives upon.
Let’s find the tracks now…
To me you keep trying to pinpoint my own greed – humorous at best. Wild stabs at the dark do not become true the more feverishly and the more pointed you make them.
When you want to talk facts, try to answer everything in full instead of sniping the bits the greed policies are all window dressed for.
Although from me, I’ll tell you now and I’m being upfront: I actively seek out to inform people in this matter.
You cannot distance from it with a high opinion of yourself. Your connection to your own personal situation does not some how differentiate it from others doing the same. You have no reason to be upset with me now because I have always been here, helping drum up awareness for the damage the investment is doing. Something has to be done about this. However much money can be made and however you feel a market should exist never ever precludes THE PEOPLE.
These free market ideologies are plutocratic at best and would put society on the fast track back to serfdom and slavery. Snap out of the money trance and take a look around, there are more people than wealth available in the economy right now. We need structure and we need a way to work together, not COMPETE.
I must add to the bit about ego stroking, because I do find this to be a caveat in your nature. In fact, not only your own, but also other people who have posted here sharing your views.
It seems to be that jeering is part and parcel of the nature because you will try to provoke those of us who feel strongly about the situation. Once you get your reaction, you return to your civilized irrelevant debate routine with the added punch of having a dignified “oh how unmoderate!” tone.
Northstar says:
But, but you can’t prove…
Alex says:
Go find them yourself!
You are predictable and that is why you get tag (and triple?) teamed.
Allowing the people to own homes is important – rich or poor.
May 20th, 2009 at 11:52 am
Heather,
You are right, I did provoke that name calling in that circumstance. I apologize to you. As I have stated though, most of my name calling is in response to the derogatory names flung in my direction. I will however stop as it is childish. My posts in regards to your statements have never been about your ethical points of view ( As I agree with a lot of them ). My points are in response to market direction only.
I might add that early in this thread all I asked for was some unemotional facts to back up either side of the argument (from anyone). The reason I asked for “unemotional” is because a persons ideological belief of which way a market should go has nothing to do with which way a market goes. The same goes for people who want the market to go up. In response to me asking that simple question, I got from you a paragraph on why your emotions are valid and u.s. politics. I never said your emotional beliefs aren’t valid. What I’m saying is that emotional beliefs can’t be used when talking about what direction the market might go. I do listen to what you say and maybe there’s a mis-communication between yourself and I. I’m still not quite sure if your arguments are just venting about what’s happening, or whether they’re your reasons for the market heading south.
In the end, what’s frustrating for me is that when you bring up how inventories are up over last year… If I say yes they are, but demand is up an equal amount too, then I’m attacking you and it turns into something that’s blown out of proportion as the responses go down the thread. If someone else brings it up, then you seem to have an intelligent debate. All I want is intelligent debate without mud slinging.
Alex,
Enough please. You are the king of people’s opinions not counting if they’re not the same as yours. This will be my last post in response to you, as you and I can’t seem to have a civil conversation. Quite frankly, I’m tierd of it. I used to blame everything and everyone for my misfortunes as well. No matter what you say against it, I can see through it. The very hatred and backlash against those with money and how they should give up their money is greed itself. We all have a certain level of ego Alex and I can admit that I have one. That ego helps me a lot in certain situations and it hinders me in others. I learn everytime it hinders me. I won’t call you wrong in pointing out my ego, however you’re clearly throwing stones from the biggest glass house of them all. I look forward to the day I can hold up the mirror to your face and show you how you look like everything you despise. Of course you don’t want to see that, do you? I have given you multiple chances to prove me wrong. I will admit most of your posts have been frustrating for me. I will no longer get frustrated or upset by your posts. I will smile because I know who you are.
May 20th, 2009 at 11:53 am
(captcha: having continued)
Northstar,
Again, more substance and turnaround. Lots of peoples’ opinions count when they are not my own. Where do you come off saying that? I think we need to refer to what I said earlier: “Your connection to your own personal situation does not some how differentiate it from others doing the same.”
This applies in the sense that you feel as though because I’m contradicting YOU, I must do it to EVERYONE.
A helpful reminder: You still avoid the bulk of what I say. Especially the free market and heavy right capitalism.
That in itself is enough for you…but…
I hardly see the reason why you even bothered responding to me except to rub your anonymity in my face? I’m still at a loss to understand what kind of image you want to convey with intimidation. Again, it must be another snub nosed tactic, because I don’t see the purpose?
One thing for sure: It doesn’t put any weight behind all these selfless revelations you graciously offer me. You’re right, I really don’t have a concept of myself, I’ve been misguided all my life long.
Going out and getting a home and doing what it takes to make a good situation for myself without destroying the market shows my poor judgement. Indeed having been told by at least one other person here that I “call a spade a spade”, and countless others personally doesn’t count for squat.
Explain to me how even after getting a home (that I underbid on), I am somehow wrong in my views? Again, these patterns of thinking you force on others are so baseless and superficial. By all rights if I behaved like every other linear and careless man and woman out there, I’d have stopped caring the second I got my house.
I don’t pour over the values in Winnipeg, far from it. I’ve since shut that information flow off completely. I’m not waiting for the moment my house jumps in value to sell out and run the treadmill. I’m still here on a Saskatoon forum!
Somehow though, I think consideration for others does not come naturally to you and that is made most clear by your statements and fear of being personally associated with what you say. It is just too much of a stretch to see the sense in anything more than greed.
Anyway.
The proof is in who I am, what I’ve done and what I do. For you? You’re at best an impediment to the helpful ideas others bring up here.
Not many posts of Norm’s go by when discussing cost & wages without some new face coming on and voicing their frustration.
Proof proof proof, I don’t think you need anymore.
May 20th, 2009 at 11:53 am
Northstar,
You’re still not listening. My emotional beliefs and my outlook on the market are two separate entities, I’ve never equated them! That’s like saying my anger over getting burned will somehow change the Saskatoon market!? I don’t believe that so stop implying that I do! This is why I’ve accused you of trying to discredit me. Either that or you’re summarizing my posts inaccurately.
I’ll say again, just because you don’t think my points are good enough to be argued, that’s simply your opinion. Unlike you I DO believe affordability will take a toll on the housing market, and you can’t convince me otherwise. Either way we’ll find out this year.
May 20th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
Alex
I may be burned alive for this but, I feel compelled to give you my two bits. I cannot imagine that you have re-read your argument. You rant and rave, one long run on sentence after another. Sometimes, I don’t even understand what your point is. You talk in one big huge circle with sniper-like warfare.
I don’t mean to undermine your opinion, as certainly this country needs a left-wing side. But, jeez, even I get a headache trying to read most of your sentences and make sense of what your point is.
It may be that Northstar is a RE investor who is out to make a profit. That those investors have existed here certainly did not help my cause to purchase a home in Saskatoon. However, you are grating all your frustrations about everything that is wrong in Canada towards one person. So far, Northstar, in my opinion at least has been very upfront about his opinions on specifically what is happening with the real estate market. I don’t agree that what he has called you on (being as greedy as everyone else) is true. What I have learned is that everyone thinks that everyone else thinks like they do in their darkest corner. So, the person that screws you over, thinks that you would do the same to them in the back of their mind and acts on it. I do think in the past that Northstar has certainly acted to pump the market up here. But – has he been wrong – no. Now, I find his opinions are a little more moderated-very unlike yours.
Heather – I think you are on the right track. I think you have made some very valuable contributions to this discussion. I really do believe that affordability will come into play. It is tough to see right now – one of the things I am curious about is the very open immigration policy SK has right now. Immigration (I mean not provincial) certainly played a huge role in the Lower Mainland of BC. BUT – I also see that market as continual growth. There will allways be new migrants there. That now may be true of SK? It isnt just about the oil, uranium, ect. There are lots of factors – But I do believe eventually there will be a dip in this market. When – I don’t know.
May 20th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
Cindy,
I think that you’re about right when it comes to Northstar. He takes a terrible beating around here. In most cases when he has crossed the line it comes after a massive attack on his character and unfounded judgments on his motives. I also couldn’t help notice that he is one of a few who is able to say, “I’m sorry.”
Sometimes his enthusiasm and his willingness to openly share his ideas are mistaken for pumping. Like you, I can see him learning from his experience here.
He once tried to buy one of my listings so I have had the pleasure of meeting him and looking him in the eye. He doesn’t have horns. He’s pleasant and polite. Clean cut and modest. He was forthright and honorable in his dealings. He struck me as someone who probably does care about people and his community.
There will always be a need for people who are willing to invest in real estate and rent to others. Maybe it’s not ideal, and yes, everyone should be able to own a home but until we have that figured out we need people who are willing to take some risks and invest money in that area. I feel pretty confident that Northstar probably isn’t the kind of landlord that we’ve heard a lot about around here. There are some good landlords out there and I’m willing to bet that he’s one of them.
May 20th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
Cindy,
One more thing. I need to learn a little more about our immigration policy. Recently, a Pakistani gentleman told me that if he stays settled in Saskatchewan for three years that he is allowed to bring 10 other people here. He predicted that over the next ten years the Caucasian population will be the minority group. I’ve often thought that the “coming home” factor could be major at some point but I hadn’t ever considered our province to be one which might be attractive to Asian and Middle Eastern immigrants. Who knows.
May 20th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
I stopped reading Trauzzi long ago, why subject yourself to his brain spew Cindy?
May 20th, 2009 at 1:01 pm
Cindy,
I’m going to try as best I can to assert at the start here that I’m not burning you alive. But I take some offense to a few things you wrote which are just not true:
“You rant and rave, one long run on sentence after another. Sometimes, I don’t even understand what your point is. You talk in one big huge circle with sniper-like warfare.”
First, I don’t use run on sentences. There are periods, hyphens and commas. I try to space it out as best as possible with paragraphs for you.
Second, I don’t understand how the length of a point invalidates it during discussion. There just seem to me far too many rules! Perhaps during advertising we should keep it short, but I just don’t respect the notion that I have to communicate in mini blurbs.
“I don’t mean to undermine your opinion, as certainly this country needs a left-wing side.”
This is interesting and I had to smile because your sub-point ultimately is “we must regulate left wing views”. Hehe.
“That those investors have existed here certainly did not help my cause to purchase a home in Saskatoon.”
It is also unforgivable. They already have a home, why should they hold their wealth over your head?
“However, you are grating all your frustrations about everything that is wrong in Canada towards one person.”
This is another important one I need to clarify right away. I do not direct it at him specifically. I think generally speaking we avoid discussion with each other at this point. Save for his occasional jeers to tell me that he knows who I am and that I don’t know him. Or the baffling revelations that keep me up at night.
I respond as needed to ensure an incorrect point does not go uncontested, it is pretty reasonable stuff. As I am doing with you here.
I don’t see what he intends to accomplish towards me except be spiteful.
“I don’t agree that what he has called you on (being as greedy as everyone else) is true.”
Thank you.
“Now, I find his opinions are a little more moderated-very unlike yours.”
Again. Moderate. Define to me what moderate is and how the exact opposite of what is going on now is in any way wrong. Generally I admit we do not live in an extreme-right situation right now, so the “opposite view” does not imply extreme-left.
I have advocated my appreciation for balance as it is something I have spent a long time coming to understand.
What I will tell you though is that you will not accomplish balance by maintaining current practices and decisively unobservant policies – and that’s going either to the left or the right. This “hold the line” mentality only goes to serve whatever new limits the wealthy have managed to claw for themselves.
It is as I’ve explained before the “ratcheting mechanism” the right uses consistently every time the economy changes.
Why have we as a society lost our ability to travel left on the spectrum all together?
Norm,
We all learn and I think that’s good. I do not see him or any investor as a beast…But more not acting on his certain knowledge of the reality of this situation. How many exceptions are allowed when considering the impact of investment?
Are the only good investors ones we’ve met? We can’t generalize in their defense like that.
I am open to more elaborate explanations, I just haven’t seen them yet.
The wealth of the people in the nation is suffering because they cannot compete with those better off than them.
Callum,
I continue to read your quips and find that they still contribute nothing but poison to the discussion. Anonymous as well, bravo.
May 20th, 2009 at 1:01 pm
Alex,
As I’ve said before, I don’t see every real estate investor as a parasite and I accept the fact that we need people who are willing to be the landlord, at least right now. I don’t think I know a homeowner that didn’t rent at some point. It tends to be a stepping stone that follows “leaving the nest.” Therefore, I’m open to liking some of them and meeting someone is helpful in making judgments about whether or not I can like them. I don’t expect you to accept my opinions about him simply because I’ve “met” him. I’m simply explaining that my opinion of him is based on more than blog comments, just as my opinion of you extends beyond what you’ve written here. I’m still open to the idea that I could be terribly wrong about both of you.
May 20th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
Oh, I don’t believe in eradicating landlords and investors all together – that is indeed a silly idea. I agree, sometimes renting is that decision process without the hassle of maintenance…Save for when you get an ornery and penny pinching landlord
(but I think everyone agrees they’re just trouble)
For the current circumstance we already know that investment has created barriers for first time buyers.